Sold a 4MS Delay to @Wiles he paid right away, no issues, and was very patient when I misspelled my paypal address (fail lol!) Recommended.
OR... you could get a tiptop audio smart VCO MkII and have a nice analogue VCO that can both measure & sync to frequencies?
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/tiptop-audio-z3000-smart-vco-mkii
-- bubblefunk
Ah yes, I forgot about that, thanks
Thanks for the link. I know of many well-reviewed stand-alone tuners already though and am set on a racked one. It's one less thing to forget to have to lug around for. I hear ya, just personal preference.
I mean 2HP (in the case of the CED) isn't gonna kill me. Just would like to hear how some people like it before dropping $ on it, if possible.
So I realized I need a tuner and would rather have one that goes in my (euro)rack.
I'm looking at the L-1 Digital tuner as well as the Audiothingies CED, and am leaning toward the CED due to it's impressive demo video and tiny footprint. However the L-1 seems slightly cheaper.
Anyhow, I'm just wondering if anyone can shed some light on why both of these are rated pretty "meh" on MG? The video of the CED going head to head with an Electro Harmonix tuner and being spot on makes me wonder if it doesn't deserve more than a 3.5ish rating?
Or can anyone suggest a different rack mount tuner they really like? Again, I'm looking for cheap and small.
Thanks!
Errr ma gerrrrd this is so elite...
Sold a Phonogene to @peterfs , no issues, rec'd buyer!
Sold @SH4PES my Metropolis, no issues good buyer, rec'd.
Sold @freqout a Pressure Points and Brains, no issues, good buyer!
Wow you don't mess around with mixing! What made you choose multiple frap mixers vs something else?
What?? You mean to tell me you can't support both of you on your salary as an independent experimental musician? Are you sure she didn't leave because of your small penis?
Very cool. I really like Elby's chaos and wave shaping and folding stuff too.
As far as sampling goes, it seems to me you've got a great representation of different modules, but check out what Rossum Electro just announced: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/rossum-electro-music-assimil8or. I don't think there's ever been a polyphonic euro sampler?! Also it appears to me it can record input to it's SD card as well as do playback?
Wooahhhhhh! How did I overlook this VCO?! Its essentially a wavetable synth where instead of loading the single cycles from memory, you draw their crests and troughs with faders, and the module samples or interpolates a wave shape out of that. That is really, really cool. Damn it! I "just finished" my rack and this is really tempting. Very much in the spirit of additive. I'm curious if the core oscillator is analog....I've heard it is hard to find stable analog oscillators that go super-aural, or at least not cheap.
I forgot to mention: the A-151 seq switch is bi-directional, but the WMD SSM is not.
Looks fantastic, I think you've got just the right amount of logic and utility modules.
Thanks! Yeah switches- I love them because they are one of those "building block" modules that has a simple function which can lego together with pretty much anything. A few ways I use the Doepfer A-151:
Have them switch through four different modulators routed to the pitch or root in on metropolis, and then clock the switch so that every time metropolis finishes a pattern it's root is sequentiallay changed.
Set them to 50/50, two possible outputs, and trigger the switch with the URA or sloth for true random switching.
Run them at audio rate and do nasty waveshaping.
Make the WMD sequential switch matrix a 64 step 1 channel sequencer.
Route multiple waveshapes out of an VCO into Warps, i.e switch between saw, tri, etc. rather than just one.
Flip between two totally different 1v/o CVs into a VCO, completely changing a melody.
Basically with switches it is awesome when you are feed something modulation X, and while you're listening to that, modulation Y is being changed. Then you flip back to listen to modulation Y, and now modulation signal X is being altered in the background. If that makes sense! In other words, if you are into self playing/automation type stuff then you want switching.
In general I find them cheap and indispensable! I really love WMD's Sequential Matrix because it lets you step through pages of matrix connections, and even randomize them! Super under appreciated module IMO.
I'm not familiar with the VCO by Elby, but I like their stuff. What's it's premise of operation? It looks very additive, interesting.
Very cool design.....I'm thinking a skiff for on the couch playing right?
Phonogene and the ADDAC 111 were some of the last things i ordered. Just when I was feeling like I had voltage controlled sampling squared away in a decent amount of HP and cost, Rossum Electro uploads a new module, the Assimil8tor. Sure enough, its a EIGHT VOICE POLYPHONIC MULTI TIMBRAL SAMPLER. Damn near eurorack octatrack (not quite)....
I'm done building my rack!
Don't sell yourself short, man! You haven't made the noob mistake of not buying utility modules to support your oscillators.
I do think you'd benefit from a complex envelope/function/slew to really animate those wavetables. The typical suggestions are the excellent PEG and of course Maths.
However both represent a significant financial investment and are American. Don't forget you might find them used in Europe with a little luck. An alternative might be something like the A-171-2, which is easy on the wallet and HP count, and does lin/log. Nothing wrong with lots of Doepfer at all!
Here are some "fun" suggestions which I think could really expand your NW-1. Note they're not essentials and are US in origin:
Warps is a bunch of cool modulation algorithms for smashing either two separate signals, or a single signal with it's onboard utility OSC. It might be cool to mess with incoming audio and then dump it into the NW-1. Did I mention it has several vocoders....vocal wavetables? Warps can really open up some timbral options that filters can't quite do.
A joystick like the Planar or cheaper Choices are a TON of fun for wiggling wavetables, a method known as vector synthesis.
Hope that gives you some ideas! Check those used listings, you can have modular grid alert you when someone puts a module on the used market.
Ah, I understand totally. A lot of times I work intuitively too, that's why I'm into modular and hardware in general. Being able to physically turn a knob and hear the effect instantly...software, menus and mice kill my creativity! Whether you work with your right or left hemisphere or both, do what gets you the best results!
So I think that no, you don't have to become an electrical engineer and understand how the underlying circuitry makes your sound, and you totally don't have to read sheet music. However, IMHO modular synth is building complex stuff from simple blocks and if you don't understand the function of the simple blocks, I think you're due to hit a wall.
Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know now but I'd for sure try to reverse engineer the basics of Atlantis. Then you can think: "hey Atlantis is cool but basic....I wish I had a synth voice with an oscillator that sounded like this, into a filter like that" If you're a visual learner, skip the manuals and check out channels like divkid, he's great. For sure listen to modules...people can describe in text how something sounds only so well.
So I guess if I'm like a Jazz Sax improv master, I don't care about reading music, but I have to know what all the buttons and levers on my sax do. Then I can unleash raw intuitive right hemisphere organized chaos on it, which is as much as an art form as writing classical sheet music for an orchestra. Like abstract expressionist painting vs hyper real portraits. They're both admirable and meaningful to me.
Hmmm no envelopes? You want to sweep through wavetables with complex envelopes!! Also no exponential/log VCAs for your audio?
The A-119 is a great combo with the NW-1 I'd think. For those who don't know, the NW-1 can sample, slice and load external input into user wavetables. Very slick. I like the rest of it, very cool so far.
Glad to help :)
Let us break down the descriptions of Frames, Linix and Quadra but first, do you have a good understanding of envelope stages Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release (ADSR)? Its vital that you grasp of these.
Also here is a great breakdown of Maths which I did not make: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63068 , I know you were having trouble with it, no worries, its insanely deep. I'd advise tackling it later. Check out the DL-able PDF.
Here's the description of the Quadra: "Quad Envelope / Function Generator". Check out its tags and manual too.
So the Linix is a VCA mixer, cool. Let's look at the description and make sure we understand its function to avoid disappointment and wasted time. Hmm right off the bat, its described as a solely Linear VCA. Why does that matter again?
Frames is indeed a VCA but like most of Mutable's stuff its a digital Swiss Army knife loaded with alternate modes and functions. Its a bit complicated for a rack with no simple utility VCAs, IMHO. Undoubtedly a cool module, but I get the feeling you are picking these modules because they are cool and rated well, not because you understand what they do.
Since your rack has changed too, let me start from square one. You've got a really good place to start with Atlantis. Remember Atlantis is a complete pre-made voice in a box. It has all the basic building blocks of (subtractive) synthesis: Oscillator (VCO), filter (VCF), VCA and Envelope. Also the MOD or LFO section. Therefore, its the perfect thing to teach yourself why each component is important. Experimentation + Google and I am confident you'll make sense of this in no time, especially since you have made it this far.
Otherwise I'm afraid if you keep buying cool stuff without understanding it you'll end up with an empty wallet and a meh synth. Don't worry though! You can resell modules for only a little loss.
So to start, patch this:
Metropolis gate out -> Atlantis envelope gate in.
Metrop pitch out -> Atlantis VCO 1v/oct in.
Atlantis final out goes to uJack in, which goes to headphones/speakers.
A sequence running on the Metrop will now gate the Atlantis' ENVs and send pitch per step. Funky time!
You're ready to go. Do some googling and have fun with it. I think if you stick with just the Atlantis and understand it you will begin to see what your rack needs next. Read descriptions, download manuals and watch youtube and soundcloud demos! Good luck and keep asking questions when you get stuck!!!
One more thing ;)
Its very useful to combine mixers, panners, crossfader, etc with your VCA into one module. I have this thing and its not my only mixer or VCA bank, but its the last thing in the chain before going to a stereo out. Voltage controlled panning is sick!
Hi sorry for not replying (I'm a derp), I don't mind giving you some more input at all!
WARNING Unending wall of text:
You are getting a constant tone from Braids and AC because the are oscillators and not voices. To explain- a voice is a single discrete synthesis unit containing everything you need for a "complete" sound. Multiple voices controlled independently or together give you polyphony or overlapping leads...but buying four or more of everything gets expensive fast. Read on for a breakdown and options.
You've got a synth voice in your case already, the Atlantis. In that case, its a pre-made block module. This is good and bad. Notice its made up of all the basic building blocks of 'subtractive' synthesis: waves from oscillators are colored by a filter, then when you hit a keyboard key or a sequencer sends a gate signal, the VCA opens and closes, controlling the amplitude, AKA volume, of your oscillators so you're not droning all the time (unless you want to drone!).
However, going from 0% percent volume to 100% instantly when you hit a key, and back to 0% again is harsh and boring. So you sculpt a shape with an envelope and send it to control the smoothness of the VCA's opening and closing over time. Filter cutoff is another popular destination for envelope CV. Try other places!
To summarize: a simple (subtractive) synth voice is: OSC -> filter -> VCA modulated by ENV
So an oscillator or VCO is part of the voice, specifically the source of sound waves at a specific pitch. So if you have two oscillators in a voice, it must be polyphonic then, and can play a two note chord right? Actually....probably not. A single voice is capable of one pitch at a time by definition. Why have more than one per voice then? Because a single VCO sounds boring compared to multiple detuned ones. Its a key ingredient in making the much sought after 'fatness'.
So taking this all into account lets look at your rack and get your voices set up. I'm going to assume this is all stuff you have IRL as of this post. So to fully use Braids and AC we need more VCAs to stop them droning and envelopes to make interesting VCA trajectories. You've got some of the best complex envelopes made actually, with maths and the PEG! However that's only 3-4 envs total. You'll want a little more. Go simple this time with something like This.
OK now you need VCAs. You've got 7 envelopes, so get like 7-8 VCAs right? You'd be ok with that BUT there's a saying in modular synthesis: you can't have too many VCAs. This is because VCAs are also used to turn CV on and off, you know, like LFO modulation signals. Think about it....CV is used for modulating stuff a lot of the time. If you can control whats modulating the modulators with VCAs then you can build those huge Rube Goldberg patches that sound like electronic ecosystems. More VCAs = more organicness, so to speak.
One important thing to know when choosing VCAs and envelopes: they come in linear and exponential/logarithmic response curves. WTF does that mean? Short answer: machines process change linearly (so mainly module-to-module CV), humans process change exponentially/logarithmically. If you look at the Intellijel Quadra, there's a switch between each of the A and D knobs. You can see that it selects between what looks like a curvy shark fin and a more regular sharp triangle. The shark fin is an exponential curve and the sharp triangle is linear. So the quadra lets us choose the smoothest response for our signals per envelope, handy!
If that isn't making sense I urge you to do some of your own research, and sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know. Here's another thing to check out related to envelopes and VCAs: Vactrols and Low Pass Gates, they might interest you.
Good luck I hope this helps!
Also, here's the Befaco Sampling Modulator for your consideration. Its like a weird sample and hold/sequencer/clock divider you can get in a kit. Could be interesting with drums.
This is a well thought out rack I think, a great starting point for the budget. All the bases covered for basic subtractive groovebox.
About the only thought I had on it was, maybe you shouldn't double up on the Synthrotek VCOs and Drums. My line of reasoning is, if you can diversify with a different but similar module that meets your requirements, why get duplicates?
So staying within your criteria of DIY kit, relatively same cost and HP, what do you think about the Befaco Even VCO - kit? I'm having trouble finding any DIY kit drums....all the Hexinverter Mutant kits are long gone :(
Sorry, so is this a built rack or asking for advice on it? Either way I think it's a pretty awesome lunchbox to play with the brute.
In my subjective experience, limitations force you to be creative. YMMV
I also find that a mouse and keyboard are like a filter that allow my analytical decisions through and almost completely block that "right brained" intuitive, stochastic non-deliberateness. When working with hands on knobs in real time it seems to me that I can get to a place where half of me is on autopilot, and the other half is anticipating complex patterns several steps ahead. That is just me though.
I think a lot of people have been at a similar crossroads; to specialize in just non-rhythm synthesis or go jack of all trades groovebox. However every time I eyeball the mutant machine or jupiter storm I remember that I own an Octatrack and my rack has MIDI clock/trig in.....
Given that you have about 30-40 HP left, I guess what you have to decide is: can you fit enough rhythmic firepower in that space to be satisfied?
It depends on what you want. If you can be happy with a few Tiptop 808/909 modules and a trigger sequencer like this not yet out one or this then maybe go for it. Just know your rhythm section isn't going to be Mike Portnoy's Siamese Monster, and that is totally fine if that's what you're looking for.
If that is too much of a compromise, save up for some kind of standalone drum machine and build out your rack. You've got lots of good price points here from the Volca Beats to MFB's new stuff and seriously dangerous gear like Tempest and many of the Elektron boxes (my favorites).
These are just hands-on hardware options that seem good to me too, I'd urge you to do your own research. Remember you'd need some kind of MIDI clock/trig IN module if your box doesn't send CV/Clock signals out so your drum box can sync with your rack.
Also, I'm not sure why'd you want more envelopes either, but you're spot on with needing a clock divider for rhythm.
I think the multi was a good move, actually I should have suggested you one! Wow, the Kappa pretty cool. I didn't know anyone made a desktop step sequencer in that form factor. Enjoy that stuff!
Qu-Bit has some cool 2HP stuff that might pique your interest, namely the utility EON and a 2 HP analog VCO, which is coming out soonish.
If you're into really nasty timbres, Synthrotek makes an affordable wavefolding filter called DIRT.
I'm not familiar with the SQ-1 but I wonder how the brute's sequencer would interact with the brainseed. I'm thinking maybe duphonic?
Hope that gives you some ideas.
Cool rack so far. I agree with Exper, but I think Hot Glue and Quad Sputnik are overkill in terms of HP. What do you think about something more minimal, like this? It is a 4 in 1 out mixer in 3 HP that can mix CV as well, and is relatively cheap. Malekko also makes a 3HP mute module which could synergize with your Rosie.
For a basic VCA, I think you could do worse than this.
Sputnik also makes a compact multi VCA/Mixer.
The Optomix is hard to beat for a starter low pass gate, revision 2 is coming out (soon?) and will have even more function.
WHAT NO FILTERS?!
Yes, but consider: two cross modulating complex oscillators, wavefolders galore, a giant matrix mixer and Warps AKA the modulation Swiss army knife...I have more fun mashing signals together, but that's just me!
Digital and Analog, plenty of logic, totally different sounding oscillators, polyphonic, stereo and lots of matrices (I love matrices!)
So...people who like additive, what would you change?
