Thanks. I think I'm going to order the Cooper Traces unit, although it looks like there will be a short delay ordering from Perfect Circuit. What do you think about using the sequencer from the Moog Mother 32 in the meantime? It also looks I could possibly use the Gate Out of the Grandmother into a CV input on the Plaits. Let me know what you think about this short term solution.

I’ve started to become intrigued by the use of clock dividers, Bernoulli gates, Clocked/CV controlled attenuverters, Logic gates, LFOs, and switched multiples as an alternative to sequencers.

As in:
Trigger Riot, Klavis Mixwitch and Logica XT, ADDAC gates, Bizmuth, and Pamela’s New Workout, and Branches and two switched multiples all next to each other.

Hello!

My name's Jesse McClear... and I'm an electronic musician from the Metro Detroit area. The reason I'm writing, is that I'm trying to get a small business going... making eurorack cable hangers, studio desks, etc.

I currently have a eurorack cable hanger up on Kickstarter (only 7 days left!). I just wanted to share the links below, feel free to pass it along! I'd really appreciate it. Thank you!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jjmcclear/the-hex-01

https://www.instagram.com/eurodeskz/

https://www.eurodesk-z.com

Kind Regards,

Jesse McClear

all good advice, multiple sequencers - so you can sequence the sequencer (ie transpose)

the simple ones are really useful

even if in the future you decide you want a more complex sequencer, you can use the simpler ones for transposing or for general CV generation

how are you currently playing/sequencing???

I think this looks like a great start, and you don't need much more to get going.

One suggestion would be to find a way to generate CVs for notes and triggers. For example, with an FH-2 from Expert Sleepers, you can connect a USB midi keyboard to trigger and play different notes on the Plaits. Without a keyboard, there are a couple of other options. You could add a small sequencer (e.g., SEEK from Copper Traces). You could add a bigger sequencer (e.g., Rene2) but then you would also need a clock (e.g., Pamela's New Workout), and then you are well on your way down the rabbit hole. You could add a quantizer, and let the Maths drive the tones. Or, you could add a random generator (e.g., Marbles from Mutable Instruments) for triggers and notes.

Other than that, I can recommend a Disting Mk IV. It is the Swiss army knife of modules. It can be a quantizer, random generator, sample player, recorder, envelope generator, LFO, VCO, or fifty other things, all by itself. It is great for learning what module you need next. E.g, if you always end up using it as an LFO, then you need a dedicated LFO.

EDITED Mar 19th 2019, 14:01

Marketplace: new regions

Added Africa and Asia to the Marketplace

Also, I feel like this may be a daft question. But is the Row Power essential if I have a powered case?

So I have taken on the constructive criticisms of my first rack and I feel like this may be an improvement?

I will keep Plaits as I do require an oscillator and I love it's versatility, Ears is included so that I can input external audio from contact mics/other synths, etc. Whilst I may consider a MIDI interface for control via my Teenage Engineering OP-1 in the future, I have lef tthat out for now.

Although some said that Rainmaker takes up too much room, after researching it I still want it as part of my system, due to the sound design capabilities. Lofi Junky is also a must have for me.

So other than that, upon becoming aware of my lack of any VCA's or modulation sources - I feel that Maths and Veils would be appropriate. What does anyone else think?

I have left room for other modules in the future such as Yarns/Clouds/Magneto.

Does this appear to be a more functional version of my first post?

A few suggestions in addition to the excellent suggestions that Lugia made:

Switch to an Intellijel 7U case and put the noise, S&H, Quadratt, and audio I/O, perhaps MIDI module, if you need it.
Do you need all the functions of the metropolis or would a Varigate 8+ get you sorted?
You do need an envelope generator. Consider the XAOC Zadar or Malekko Quad Envelope.
Look at the micro version of certain modules, such as Beehive from Michigan Synth Works instead of Plaits.
The signal mingler looks interesting, but again quite a bit of HP. While not exactly the same, the Klavis Mixwitch does a good amount of the same, but you could add the Logica XT on top of it and get more out of it.
I know Lugia is not keen on FX modules, but I do like them. The question is always: how much control do you really need? Do you just want to add a little richness by adding a touch of delay and reverb, or do you intend to use it as an actual integral component of a patch where the FX changes in character? For the latter, you do need more control. For the former, consider the 2hp Delay and Reverb, or the Pico DSP. The Black Hole DSP2 is also nice and offers a bit more control and stereo. 2hp is hard to beat as a utility FX.
A nice mixer for your setup would be the XAOC Praga.

The power ribbon to the modules is most important. The -12V on the busboard should only be connected to -12V on a module. Twisting the ribbon and getting it wrong can do serious damage.

Other than that, the general advise is not to connect the output from one module to the output from another. But I have done exactly that myself, by accident, countless times when patching. The patches didn't work, but I have never done any damage to a module. I believe it was more of an issue with older modules. Newer modules are expected to be able to handle output to output.

I have also never had problems with voltages outside specified ranges, i.e., patching a negative voltage, say from a bipolar LFO, to the 1V/oct input on an oscillator that requires a positive voltage, or patching a 10V CV to an input that maxes out at 5V. It may not work as intended, but no damage is done.

Other than the power ribbon, don't worry, patch away ... :)

[edited for typos]

EDITED Mar 19th 2019, 08:16

If you look at things like the Lightbath videos, something is sequencing the voices... in his Loom series, for example, it's Mutable's "Marbles" module.

If you are only processing external audio, I'd suggest replacing Plaits with something like Batumi or Pam's New Workout (and you'd have a little room left for another modulation source in 2-4 hp). That way, you could bring a signal in through Ears, process it with Rings and Rainmaker, and use Batumi/Pam's/extra little module to modulate various parameters.

If, on the other hand, you expect this system to generate all of your sound, you're going to be disappointed. As Lugia said, you need modulation sources... this system has none (in those same Lightbath videos, he uses Mutable's "Stages" module for this role... and in his other videos, he uses many other things).

One other thing I'd suggest... go for 104 HP instead of 84. The size difference is small, and the cost difference will be negligible, but it will give you more flexibility.

Hi all,
Here is a quick newbie question as I start exploring a modular setup for the first time. Is there anything in a modular rig that should not be connected together? I don't want to damage my modules but want to be able to experiment. Maybe there is an article or post but have not had luck finding one.
Thanks,
The Doc

Lugia,
Thanks for the great feedback, really appreciate you taking the time.
Looking forward to my adventure.

Actually, that was a rather nice haul. To make that an individual system, you'd need a VCF or two, some envelope generators, some more VCAs (preferably something with mixing capability, such as Intellijel's Quad VCA) and more modulation complexity, such as a Maths. The Waldorf + Elements pairing is super-enviable...wavetable/sampling paired with modelling will be a killer voicing combo.

Actually, Tiptop just dropped a new module that might be a key piece in manipulating modulation signals in the way you need. Have a look at their new MISO module, which is a complex arithmetical mixer intended for CV/mod use. Pairing that with something such as a Xaoc Batumi would make for an incredible and playable combo. Plus, a good complex drone VCO that you should be able to get some mileage out of would be the Synthesis Technology E352 Morphing Terrarium, a dual digital VCO with extensive timbral morph capabilities.

Great feedback. I see what you mean re: primary function vs. secondary/complementary function. The MG function search might have been adding to my confusion a bit, too. I'll check out some videos of the Mixology. Thanks.

Hello anyone willing to give this a look. I have some modules I picked up used and found floating around locally so I know this is not the best thought out system, yet. I also will be getting a Make Noise Black and Gold Shared System Plus that these modules will integrate with. Any suggestions to make this a standalone without the Make Noise would be appreciated.

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_875073.jpg

Thanks,

The Doc

Sorry if I was unclear, I already have Clouds, and Rings and Frames will arrive this week.

@goodbyebluesky82 , thanks for your input. I've only played around with Clouds for a few hours, but I see what you mean. I'm hoping that Frames will help me with the attenuation part, but I am thinking about additional generators. Do you have any ideas? Pamela's new workout looks interesting!

Clouds is actually more affordable than ever, since it was so popular that many good builders sell their own builds on Reverb. That said, I have been exploring my Clouds for a bit and learned that without other sources to modulate / effect the individual parameters, it is a bit underwhelming. Random cv generators, LFO or function generators, combined with attenuator to control the amount of modulation over the different parameters on Clouds are what really open that module up.

PS. I dig the name of your build.

EDITED Mar 18th 2019, 20:41

Budget = £1000+

Sampler
Filter
Trigger (SEQ)
Input (to sample)
Output (to system)
Modulation (LFO etc)
Reverb/Delay
Feedback?

:)

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_874982.jpg

I hope this works. I am completely new to working with eurorack. Previous to starting this adventure, I have used a Korg MS-20, Moog Mother 32, DFAM, and Moog Grandmother. What should my next module be? I received these module units (in the link) in the last 2 weeks and hope to sit down with them this week and experiment. Looking to add a couple more and then really sit down and just try everything imaginable. Look forward to hearing suggestions.

I would go with a couple of simple sequencers first. If they have the option to be reset/synced, they'll fold nicely into a more complex set-up.
-- Ronin1973

Absolutely. Two or three of these simplistic devices coupled with a clock divider, precision adder and a quantizer will generate complex sequences like you never dreamt. Spending a couple dozen hours with those will give you a much more educated idea of what to look for in the big iron.

EDITED Mar 18th 2019, 18:30

I agree entirely with Ronin's description of sequencers. I use XAOC Tirana II as a simple utility sequencer. Rene2 as an "immediate" sequencer, and I just using NerdSeq as a more "structured" sequencer. They have very different strengths, and it is not a problem to use all of them together.

Tirana II is excellent for creating simple gates and CV changes during a patch. I use Rene2 for improvisation and melodies. With the knobs, buttons, and snakes, I find it very immediate and inspiring. I use NerdSeq for more fundamental building blocks of a song: rhythms, melodies, samples. It is less immediate and requires some planning and a more structured approach.

Very different machines. It comes down to taste and workflow.

The Wasp Filter is a particular filter and not very general. I think a dedicated multimode filter would serve you better as a first filter.

Drop the Optimix and the Wasp and put in something like an Intellijel Morgasmatron. You'll get a lot more use out of it seeing it has two multimode filters and a lot of modulation options.

Well, you'll probably want more than one sequencer. I know. That's not what you want to hear.

I generally lump sequencers into two categories: simple and complex.

Think of a simple sequencer as an 8 or 16 step sequencer that can control CV and gate (perhaps just one of the two). The Pittsburgh Modular micro 8 step sequencer, Befacos Muxlicer, Noise Engineering Mimetic Digitalis fit the bill as well as the Sequins mode of Ornaments and Crime.

A complex sequencer would be like the Eloquencer, 1010 Music Toolbox, NerdSequencer, etc. Most of them you can save your patterns in and construct entire songs.

I would go with a couple of simple sequencers first. If they have the option to be reset/synced, they'll fold nicely into a more complex set-up.

The complex sequencer is more about personal preference. With the more complex sequencers you tend to trade off real time controls for depth and the ability to recall your work.

Don't be afraid to be wrong. Order from a place that has a great return/exchange policy. A 30 day period is usually good. You don't know what's going to work for you until you've had a chance to get in depth with it.

As far as the Neutron, keep it. You'll find it more useful as your system expands. Sometimes you want to just create a sound quickly without a lot of patching. Having an all-in-one synth voice lying around can help with your inspiration rather than trying to patch the equivalent together and losing inspiration.

thanks @fluffymuff for the really smooth transaction. perfect.

One note: unless you have a Clouds or are willing to find a used one, you'll need to use a third-party build of it, as Mutable discontinued production of it quite some time ago.

The latter...using the Disting and other modules to substitute for a relatively simple module such as a noise gen and sample & hold is sort of a waste of the more complex functions they're capable of. That's the real reason for them; leave basic functions to basic modules. Also, the thing about noise is that it comes in a number of different "colors", which are different distributions of noise levels across a given span of spectrum. For example, "blue" noise is weighted more toward higher frequencies, while "red" is heavier on low-end spectral components. When you use these as a source of randomly-distributed signals, these frequency differences translate into different types of behavior by sample & holds, when used as modulation signas, and the like. So while having a noise source is essential, it's also important to be able to control that "colored" distribution factor.

A buffered mult can technically be used for the same function as a passive mult, yes. But they're not the same, so if a given patch function relies on a voltage sag for some of its behavior, a buffered mult won't allow that to occur. And of course in all cases, you cannot mix via a mult -- they only function as one-in, many-out.

Pannable mixer? As of late, I really like Qu-bit's Mixology. It gives you CV over level, pan, AUX send per channel, has an effect send/return, metering, and mute and solo functions, all in 28 hp for $400, which is pretty reasonable as performance mixers go. There are probably cheaper methods, but they'd involve building up a mixer with discrete modules, plus you might not have all of the functionality the Mixology offers for its price.

So far, so good. My preference for an external input module is actually the Doepfer A-119, as it gives you a better choice of external connections. Another thing you should consider would be some modules to extend the capabilities of the sequencers, such as logic, clock modulators, divide/multipliers and so on. These will let you create some rather complex interactions between the hardware sequencers you already have. You might also double down on some basic modules here, such as VCAs, EGs and LFOs to add some modulation complexity, plus the use of linear VCAs to control/change CV/mod signal levels as needed. Last, look at getting one or two Erica PICO MScales so you can easily translate back and forth between the M32 and DFAM CVs and everything else, keeping everyone in the proper scaling.

Yes a MIDI input module could be a good idea, as I have an OP-1. Although I figured that Ears could be a good way of inputting external audio. Although I'll be honest, I'm suprised to hear some say this wont work - yes I am new to modular, but I've seen quite a few videos on Youtube (Lightbath, etc.) and Instagram of people using small units with similar modulars, and they units generate the warm ambient soundscapes that I wish to.

I just bought Frames because of the many purposes it seems to serve. I'm interested in using it as a mixer, but also as a primitive sequencer that I'd program (frame) by using the Minibrute.

Paired with:
Arturia Minibrute 2
Teenage Engineering OP-1
Source Audio Ventris Dual-Reverb

I play the piano but recently got into making electronic music. I like working with ambience, harmonies and drones. The goal is to write music for relaxation and meditation. I'm very new to modular, so any feedback or inspiration that can help me on my journey would be appreciated, thanks!

Thoughts:
Mutable Instruments Tides
Make Noise Rosie

EDITED Mar 18th 2019, 01:08

I thought a lot of the functions you note under #4 were being taken care of by the Maths, Disting, Plaits, etc. Are you suggesting I need more than one module to address these functions in the same way that a system needs multiple VCOs; or, are you suggesting that I need modules that are more focused on providing that specific function? For example, the Plaits provides a noise source; so, do I need maybe an A-118 in addition to Plaits?

Can a buffered multi be used as a passive multi?

Any recommendations on a pannable stereo mixer module that would work well with the Pittsburgh?

Thanks.

Hi, thank you for your comment. This project are still a "work in progress". I'm thinking to eliminate A-Mix and use the 3 input of the modDemix as mixer

My semi-modulars : Mother-32, DFAM, 0-Coast, System-1m.
My sequencers : KeyStep, BeatStep pro, SQ-1.

In your opinion, is this rack a good beginning to extend and complete my set, and make my first steps into the real modular world ?

About the case : 6U studio case 104HP + power supply
https://www.modularsquare.com/fr/shop/eowave/6u-studio-case-104hp-power-supply/
Or : TipTop Audio Mantis
https://www.modularsquare.com/fr/shop/tiptop-audio/mantis-case-vert/

Thanks in advance for your advices.

EDITED Mar 17th 2019, 13:58

Bought MI Stages from @bark (nice handle btw).
Everything went smooth. Shipped as agreed. Good packaging.

Just realized I posted an older rendition. This is what I am actually considering:

Like most in this sub I'm pretty fresh to the euro game. I have a minibrute 2 and the rackbrute 6u. Over the past few months I have accumulated the maths, rene, and plaits and have had loads of fun with just these and the brute, but I want to expand and have plenty of rackspace to do so. This is what I have sketched up so far and would love some feedback before I pull the trigger on any of these.
Thanks so much

For starters, you need to change your case width. The Mantis is 2 x 104 hp. Once this is the right size, then you should have a much better idea about remaining space.

1) Lose the Multiplicity XV. You won't need it. A massive buffered mult like that is great if you're talking about a 15+ VCO rig, but this isn't going to ever come close to that. Right now, your build shows a DixieII+ and a Plaits, and you can send a CV to both with a plain old passive inline mult with no risk of CV sag. I know you already have this on hand, but it's way off in the overkill zone for a small build and you're losing hp to it.

2) Lose the Quad Invert. Your Triatt has attenuverters already. Plus, it's always better to have attenuverter control over inverse signal levels than dedicated inverters unless there's a specific reason they need to be there (such as providing four inverters for a quad envelope gen).

3) Consider losing the OR module. I don't see enough gate sources here (Pam's notwithstanding) to warrant it.

4) This NEEDS some noise/random source, sample & hold, ring modulation, waveshaping, and especially envelope generators to be a functional, proper synth. You also need some sort of stereo mixer, otherwise the capabilities of that Pitt output module are wasted.

5) Consider doing your effects outboard for the sake of hp. An Erbeverb is a nice thing...provided you have 20 hp to spare and with what's missing here for your stated purpose, you don't have that much space to blow. You might also consider going to a much smaller reverb such as Purrtronics' spring emulator which would also help you "stereoize" your output signal if you find you don't have the room for a proper pannable stereo mixer.

6) Consider using an Optomix instead of the LXD. This way, you have manual level and LPG frequency controls in addition to the regular CV ins, which then makes this a better/more controllable candidate for mixing the two LPG signals to a mono out.

7) Lastly, add a more complex VCF than just the Wasp. It's a great filter, sure, but you'll want more. My suggestion would be Tiptop's Forbidden Planet, something of a Steiner Synthacon VCF clone. Very capable and very interesting-sounding, plus you have multiple filter responses rather than just the lowpass the Wasp offers.

EDITED Mar 17th 2019, 00:18

Nope, this won't work. There's a lot of essential items missing here: no VCAs, no envelope gens, no LFO, nothing random, no noise sources, no mixers, no attenuators, and there's unnecessary things in here (Rainmaker, Ears). Plus, if you're trying to do decent sound design and ambient work, you're either going to have to resort to very small modules (6 hp and down) or expand the case, or (better) both.

Let's think ahead, also. You will want to expand this eventually. This means that your case situation needs to be thought out for this in advance. My take on this is that you should look into Intellijel's 4U x 104 hp case, a rather sturdy aluminum skiff-type cab which comes fully-powered for $319, and which can easily be added to later via Intellijel's joiner plates and more of their cabs. The other reason for 4U here is that you can take some of the basic functions and put them into the 1U tile row. You're limited to Intellijel's tiles (the 1U row here doesn't take the "standard" tiles) but they offer most of your necessary basics (ie: MIDI, mixing, sample & hold/noise/clock, audio I/O, etc).

Next, shrink the hell out of things in the 3U row. Don't use single-function modules if you can help it, and keep the module widths as low as you can. Even if this raises the cost some, the end result will be more function packed into the build, which means more capability for what you want/need. Also, limit what goes into this to pure functionality; if you can move 3U functions to the 1U row via a tile, do so. Avoid mult modules since they waste space in smaller builds and use stackcables or inline mults. See how far you can go without compromising ergonomics and playability (which, if you go too small, you run a real risk of doing). Plus, if you can do anything outboard (such as effects processing), do so...leave the space in the cab strictly for things which cannot be replicated outside of it.

Lastly, remember that a synth has to have aspects of these four functions: generators (VCOs, noise, etc), modifiers (VCFs, VCAs, ring mods, waveshapers, etc), controllers (mixers, MIDI interfaces, joysticks, clocking, sequencers, etc) and modulators (LFOs, envelope gens, sample & holds, etc). If your build doesn't have parts from all four of these synth "food groups", it's not going to function well.

EDITED Mar 16th 2019, 23:57

*Updated Rack

Hello all!

First time posting on the forum. I am about 1 year into my synth/modular journey and I am obsessed and learning something new each day.

My first piece of gear was the DFAM which I love followed by a Neutron and a keystep that I pair with it.

I have made the jump and just got a mantis case and have a maths, dixie 2+, a-140 adsr, veils, and a passive mult.
I plan on getting a wasp filter or a three sisters.

My question is really about sequencers...I am torn between a Eloquencer or Rene v2 or a pressure points with brains.
Or do I not worry about the sequencer so much right now and go with something like a PNW, adding a plaits and marbles or go with a batumi ahhhh! I bit lost at this point but basically I am trying to create a stand alone unit along with my DFAM. I might sell/trade the neutron because I am not using it as much as I thought I would.

Any advice would be great.

Thank you!

EDITED Mar 30th 2019, 00:17

I'd like to get some input please. I've already purchased the top row of modules. The second row is what I'm looking at to expand my system so I can start learning general synthesis techniques.

Most of these choices are based on the comments made on previous threads. But I can see where that would be dangerous given the high variability of functions between modules. Obviously, I'd like to avoid unnecessary duplication and modules that are too niche for a beginner setup. So, the bottom row is sort of a usual suspects lineup. The empty space is reserved for more specialized modules I can purchase after I start to figure out how this thing works. What would you guys add or subtract? Thanks.

Looks like you're missing any form of control (save for moving the knobs yourself in realtime). LFOs, envelope generators, etc. Not to mention sequencing. You could just add a midi input module or expert sleepers and use a laptop for all the control.

EDITED Mar 16th 2019, 18:41

bought a z-dsp from @aphel and it was as smooth a purchase as one could hope for... highly reccomend! Thanks @aphel :)

Doepher A-100 P6

I think it's a pretty good start. You might want to reconsider the Rainmaker for such a small rack. I find it quite bulky (and expensive). The 4MS DLD might be an interesting module to look at, and then you'll have a bit extra space for something like 2HP verb which is quite essential for ambient I think.

Good luck!

I don't own anything modular as of yet, it's also going to take me some time to save for one. However I want a modular unit that is small and capable of ambient soundscapes and sound design. Does this unit look appropriate for those needs? Or am I missing anything essential?

Hey there, nice little 3-voice skiff! I’m building one myself. How are you finding the Pico mixer? It’s not too hard to adjust the levels with the tiny knobs? Thanks and have a blast with your kit!

Thanks @Lugia and @Dom78

Learning synthesis with my rack, I am trying to avoid pedals and DAW for the coming year at least. Trying to create everything within the modular system.

So from what you've said, I gather that the parts that make this warbly, lo-fi sound are:
* Pitch modulation
* Overdrive
* Filtering
* Chorus
* anything else?

Some follow up questions:
* Is it possible to modulate the pitch of my main output?
* For overdrive, I guess I could use a VCA?
* For chorus the DLD?

For reference, these are the modules I currently have:

Thanks!