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Thanks for your answer Jim!

I have a few modules I can use as mixers (Moddemix, Shades, 3xVCA and Quad VCA) and in other ways if necessary

Regarding the case, I really only have a small desk with limited space available, so I don't think a bigger case is a good idea for me.

-- Martebar

you appear to have a mix of mono and stereo modules - but no panning to get from mono->stereo

re more space - there's always - the wall, the floor or a new desk!!!

and remember 1hp is only 5.08mm so an extra 36 hp is a whopping 18.3cm - or 7"

regarding quantizers - does the pico quantizer have enough channels?

I see 5 vcos (not counting BIA) and only a 3 way buffered mult... so max 4 in tune at once... given the sequencers you mentioned

haha - that's why I always try to plan at least a few modules ahead

This would be the beginning of a very expensive Journey and I was successful to avoid that yet ;)

you already started the journey - and remember it's not like going down the pub

I think getting a decent sized case to start with, though, is a big help in the not getting a second case (and once there is a second...) I have wondered what would have happened if I'd started with a bigger case...

EDITED Sep 16th 2020, 20:16

I use Marbles as both a (generative) sequencer and a clock

the 'problem' with Marbles (and I think Pams) is that the quantizer is internal = ie you can't quantize external sources with either module - so neither may be what you want

both Marbles and Pams can produce random melodies and quantize them on output - Marbles has the advantage that you can play a new scale in and use that to quantize to - the so called re-mix feature - but Pams has more scales...

I'm considering Pams as a module myself - seems really useful - but I need actual triggerable envelopes more than I need any of the Pams functions and I massively prefer simpler modules

EDITED Sep 16th 2020, 19:56

then maybe a good idea to tick private! otherwise it shows up in new posts etc...

well I generally use Marbles!!!

otherwise I use a BSP or the computer (audio sample) for clock

the only quantizers I have are the 2hp tune (which is ok) and the sinfonion which is way more than ok - but it is pricey

it may help if you explain a bit more - is this a starter rack or something aimed at filling a specific purpose? a percussion rack perhaps? how are you intending to sequence it? and listen to it?

I take it the rack with the overhang and disting mk2 is the one not the picture!

personally I would rather have basic 2hp trims than the MIA in this case - you already have a 6 way vca/mixer - this way you get 6 attenuators, instead of 3 for about the same price

I always suggest people work their way through the Maths Illustrated manual if they are considering getting rid of Maths - it shows that the sum of the parts is far greater than the value of the parts - if you are only using it for basic utility functions it is a waste, but you should ensure that you are aware of everything else it can do before removing it

this stands even if they have already gone through the illustrated manual once or twice...

in your case not only would I work through the illustrated manual a couple of times with Maths, I would also suggest that you work through it with the modules that you would be left with too...

personally I would get rid of the dual adsr and replace it with a smaller module - there are plenty of dual adsrs in 10hp or less - this would with the 4hp that is free allow enough space to add batumi

the other option would be to just get another case... which would probably be my solution

sacguy71 - I didn't actually suggest you buy any attenuators - I just pointed out why you might want some, instead of using vcas - a 2hp trim module is a good idea for example - they are small and cheap - I have one either side of clouds for example

remember attenuators are utility modules too...

in general anything that's not a VCO, LFO, Filter, Effect, Sequencer is an utility

Shakespeare is correct though to a large extent - a lot of the micro case advocates are pulling modules from larger cases to focus on particular modules

these micro racks are great for what they do - but what they do is incredibly limited - what's the point of buying a modular you can realistically only patch 1 or 2 ways? and possibly can't be played in tune with anyone else (see the mylarmelodies micro techno video - no quantizer, no space)

EDITED Sep 16th 2020, 18:21

looks ok - not enough utility for my liking (sub mixing, panning, matrix mixer for modulation etc)

can't comment on how close it is to aalto though - never used it

If you are going to go for a bigger case I would go for a mantis (reasonably priced with decent power) - that way you will have space left over - if you don't like gaps get some blind panels

most vcas with knobs have attenuators built in - doesn't necessarily mean you don't need attenuators too

for example - clouds cv ins benefit massively from attenuation - so I always want attenuators for clouds - do I always want to take up 2-4 of my vcas (some of which have attneuators) for this purpose? no

the same with sending modulation to my cv->midiCC converter - I need a lot of attenuation, but not necessarily VC Attenuation

the same with regular audio level modulation to lzx video modules - that use 0-1v - I need attenuation not necessarily VC Attenuation

in all these cases passive attenuators work perfectly well and are much cheaper than VCAs

kinks is not a matrix mixer - it's a rectifier/logic/sample and hold in 4hp - really useful for modifying modulation

matrix mixers on the other hand are really useful because: you can mix together n inputs to x outputs and lend themselves very well to feedback patching - patch one of the outputs back into one of the inputs - again adds variety to modulation

NP - have you checked out the maths illustrated manual - even if it doesn't inspire you to buy a maths, it may inspire some patching of the quadrapol/Delta-v combo!

I just had another look -

again - kinks and a matrix mixer (AISynthesis do a reasonably priced, reasonably sized one) will massively expand your modulation capabilities for a reasonable price

I'd probably also want some more audio mixing options - I see a 2hp mix for submixing the drums and a unity for audio and the quadrapol/delta-v for cv, but it doesn't really seem to be enough - maybe a quad cascading vca such as veils or intellijel

yeah - it's small, inexpensive, has 3 functions - if you have stackcables or enough mults, you can patch it to get 7 different, but related modulation outputs from a single modulation source

it's similar with matrix mixers - put mult x modulation sources in get x more related modulation outputs

once you've got a few modulation sources - things like these and cascading vcas, switches etc are generally less expensive for getting more out of them than getting more modulation sources and will lead to more interesting modulation -that's not to say never get any more modulation sources - it's more: there are other ways, as there almost always are in modular

thoughts

weird size rack - I count 94 - and with an intellijel 1u? unusual but not impossible - unless you are using the intellijel cases 1u modules designed to connect to points in the intellijel cases are pointless - check the 1u - at least some of them are specifically designed to work with intellijel cases!!!

I think you are adding too many large functional modules (specifically sound generation and processing and modulation generation) and not enough utility - which is where you need to concentrate in order to make this more than a single patch wonder - not enough possibilities for the multing, modifying and combining of control voltages, no where near enough vcas

For the number of sound generators and modifiers you have, though I don't think you have enough modulation - take out the furmana and add kinks and a matrix mixer

How are you sequencing?

How are you mixing?

Personally I would abandon the concept of planning a modular at this stage in your journey

I would simply get as big a case as you can (Mantis is good, or whatever this is if you really want the 1u) a single sound source, a single modulation source, a single sound modifier, a way to listen and a way to play and learn to patch what you have inside and out before adding anything else - once you've done that you will probably know that you need a module to do something that you are missing, buy that and repeat - continue in this vein for 6 months or so - then take a look back at this and try to build another rack around these modules - it will probably be 50% bigger - and that's just adding modulation for the furmana!

do you want suggestions?

if so modulation (Maths and stages perhaps) and utilities (kinks a matrix mixer) would seem like a good place to start

one sound source - any of the VCOs
one modulation source - maths
one sound modifier - a filter
a way to play - either use the BSP you already have or get the es9 - up to you
a way to listen - quad vca

maybe add kinks to this

learn everything inside and out

add one module at a time - unless you realise you need more utilities to make it work properly - and repeat....

other than ergonomics - no - but they are very personal - go slowly and expand slowly (with what you need, not just what you want) is the key to getting a playable and interesting modular

Thanks for detailed answer @JimHowell1970 and @Lugia
Indeed I need to change my way to procede. Looking for modules on Youtube isn't the best way to explore patches and trigger your creativity. You get easily seduce by sexy modules while being new. I totally agree

learning....

First yeah I have to take those moog modules out of the case to free the space in order to add a bunch of utility and logic modules (I haven't looked up for a matix mixer but now that I did, I cleary need one) I think I'll go for a joystick too (Planar² seems great fun)

yeah a matrix mixer and a handful of stackcables makes you modulation go a lot further - especially when paired with a kinks

For sound sources, it's clear that I need more. I was planning to get a piston Honda and some filters (one Polivoks filter for sure)

Not convinced - I count 6 in total (including clouds) already!

I was planing to get more VCAs (Hexvca Befaco) and a quad attenuator in order to throw a bunch of them in my patches to have more control of each patches and send them to my mixer Worn Soundstage. I believe this enough to have a good mix of all my patches, but I'm not 100% certain.

I would just go with 2 2hp trim modules for attneuation - and see if you need more vcas - you may not

I'm not planing to sell anything yet, I'll buy more modules and explore the patches. See what do fits the best and then sell what I don't need anymore.
Thanks a lot for bringing your expertise!

-- Angular_drift

I haven't sold a single module in over 3 years

Mind you in the last 30 years I have only sold 3 guitars and a bass - to fund modules - I still have guitars and a bass though

I'd add an AISynthesis matrix mixer and kinks - multing your modulation to these will add more much variety than either zadar or batumi

looks like you'd have 2hp left for a 2hp trim module or a dreadbox div

I agree about maths - it is way more than the sum of it's parts - check out the illustrated manual online for (self) patch ideas

another option would be to buy another case now instead of a module - that way you don't have the I only have xhp left itch - hehehe

EDITED Sep 13th 2020, 18:51

show us your rack - what you alrerady have will help determine better what you should add

yeah - not a bad go - not a fan of xpan or rosie - do you really need crossfading? I'd go happy nerding panmixjr/stereo mixer instead and a 2hp headphone module

which would save 4hp with the 3hp you already have free - that gives 7 which is a pain - something 4hp and something from the erica pico series - or maybe 2 2hp modules - maybe they do a crossfader if you need it

you might want to update your maths to a more modern version - the one with white knobs is the latest!

nice
good idea try not to buy modules - I have only bought 6 this year so far - I'm going to try to keep it down to about another 3 and maybe a couple of diy ones - plus at least some of the components for my diy backlog - otherwise I'll be needing a new case too

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 21:14

nah it's a great module as is
I just think I'd rather have a zadar or a batumi or another stages...
or some inexpensive doepfer ones with resets

@JimHowell1970,
Realizing that half of a modular setup is utilities and support modules and not 20 fancy oscillators or filters
-- sacguy71

even when one has a massive case!

yeah I'm mostly looking to buy/build only knob per function modules myself - not that I haven't got quite a few multi function modules - mutable and the like

we'll see... I doubt it though - I'd want a reset I think!
I already have a decent amount of modulation!
who knows what the future holds though... it's a definite possibility - if only it was twice the size and pingable!

yep disting does require a little menu diving - but it is really minimal - unless you are trying out lots of different algos in a single session - same with referring to the manual - setting up favourites on the sd card really helps in this regard as well - you might have to read a bit of the manual - but you'd do that if you got a new module anyway, wouldn't you?

tbh I probably only use 4 or 5 of the algos and at least one of them I should replace with a dedicated module

kinks is always a good addition for modulation imo

other than that I would want a decent mixer - preferably something that has both mono (with panning) and stereo inputs - so maybe split between 2 mixers - probably I'd go happy nerding panmixjr and stereo mixer

I'd also probably look at adding another filter or 2 - at least one of which I would want to be able to produce sine waves and accept v/oct and track a couple of octaves accurately

you really can never have too many vcas - watch the mylarmelodies video on youtube called "why you can never have too many vcas"
6u/104 is still a small modular!!! it won't fit in your handbag - but it is portable etc etc
always allow space to expand - you might not think you will want to expand from this now but you probably will - if your case is full that means buying another case - a bigger case to start with will work out cheaper overall
why filters: so you can stick a filter between morphagene and monsoon for example
why kinks: modify modulation - stop it being boring - the current rack is basically one patch - kinks will add a lot to it
why fx aid: so you have choices about how to route stuff - add layers etc etc
as for a modulation source - pams is great (i believe) but not so hands on - personally I like maths - its sort of a microcosm of modular - see the "maths illustrated manual" online to see why

personally I'm not that big a fan of ochd - no control really

modulation is quite personal though - it's a journey not an end - some things you have to work out yourself

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 11:51

how are you expecting to do final mixing/monitoring - always through the es9 or with an external mixer?

Good question...
I added a Erica Synth Links so that I can use an external mixer, too.

I would try without this first - you may or may not need it or passive attenuators to do this

I would drop the tritone and compressor

Why?
I think I will need the sidechain of the compressor and I am also looking for a way to saturate signals.

VCAs - you could just use vcas to do both of these roles - but you may want to swap to different vcas then - for example one that actually amplifies rather than attenuates - veils and intellijel quad definitely do this - side chaining can be done very easily with vcas - mix an envelope with an inverted copy of the signal you want to use to sidechain and send that to the vca

kick hat snare are next to each other - so very cramped - each of those modules is 1.16cm wide - you may want to spread them out a bit in reality

Yeah I almost thought so :)

I would swap the doepfer matrix mixer for something a bit smaller - AISynthesis does a 10hp one!!

Thanks for the hint!

spread the vcas about

What do you mean ? You mean I should also spread them like the drum modules?

vcas are useful throughout the system for modulation as well audio - so maybe 1 top left, 1 bottom right for example

unless you are smitten with the Milky Way I would swap in an fx aid xl - more options for effects - similar hardware

Thanks again! Did not stumble upon this module yet.

Here is the updated rack.
As stated in the first post, the system is a first idea for the future and I wanted to get a feeling for a balanced system.
So does this look good now?

-- le_tmp

it's looking better - not sure of the purpose of the 2hp TM - you probably need to add a quantizer to get it to do what you want - provide another v/oct channel - if this is the case you may be better off with marbles instead of bloom

I would stop stressing about it and just start with a minimum viable synth as outlined above - the plan will always change no matter what once you start patching

this is how I use them too - in between things

I see a lot of newb cases with them jammed in next to each other though

often I find the sam issue with 4 hp modules too - need space around them Disting is a good exaample of this

if you are currently using vcas as attenuators I see nothing wrong with adding a trim module to free up vcas - in fact probably what I would do - unless there is anything else you feel is missing - or just leave it for now - you don't have to have every case full to the brim!!

it's a little better

throws up questions though:

how are you expecting to do final mixing/monitoring - always through the es9 or with an external mixer?

I would drop the tritone and compressor

kick hat snare are next to each other - so very cramped - each of those modules is 1.16cm wide - you may want to spread them out a bit in reality

I would swap the doepfer matrix mixer for something a bit smaller - AISynthesis does a 10hp one!!

spread the vcas about

unless you are smitten with the Milky Way I would swap in an fx aid xl - more options for effects - similar hardware

no probs

there's a lot to be said for literally just getting - a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to listen and a way to play and slowly organically growing from there

for a way to listen get a quad cascading vca - it'll be mono, but it'll do the job perfectly well - veils or intellijel work best imo - and you will always benefit from it

if you need to use headphones then get a tile

yes all the tiles are either intellijel or shakmat (who do both - check when ordering i guess)

there are lots of theories on how to organise modules

clumps of functionality, clumped voices, voices left to right etc etc - you have to work it out for yourself - try a few different strategies and find the one that works best for you

but generally hands on control at the front tends to work best - joysticks, touchpads etc, sequencers - it really depends on the sequencer - and where the jack sockets are!

I think I'd just wait and see - keep patching and when you find yourself reaching for something that isn't there... or think of a patch and you are missing something - a sequential switch for example - then look for that - or just spend some time on modulargrid looking through different functions - maybe set the manufacturer to doepfer and read the descriptions and imagine how you would use this module - if you can see it fitting in with the modules you already have then - if something interests you look for similar modules by other manufacturers - watch videos - work out if the potentially more expensive one is that much better than the doepfer - maybe with doepfer you need 2 modules to do what the other module does, but that makes it much more versatile

I'd also spend some time working through manufacturers (this is what I did) - order the modules by price and read the description if anything looks good... then hit you tube

Nowadays I generally just know what I need - vaguely look at new modules as they are released and go - meh...

For utility modules, I'm really happy with my Shades which is a mixer, attenuverter, offsetter and my Kinks which combines an inverter/rectifier, a min/max and a noise/S&H.

If you take a look at most prebuilt systems by modular brands, they usually have those function included.
-- Martebar

shades and kinks are excellent modules (I have a kinks and 3 shades in my racks)

2hp VCA, Avert, and Trim. I never see 2hp mentioned much beyond their Pluck module, but for space saving I really like their utilities.
-- baltergeist

they were all the rage when they first came out - until people realised that they are a pain in the ass to use because they are too small and fiddly - I have 2 trims (and a couple of others TM and tune, that I don't really use any more - maybe in the future for a small portable rack - or as additional sequencing) - one each side of clouds and they are great for that - set and forget - but playability wise big knobs rule!! which means bigger modules (the same can also be said about the erica pico modules - they are kind of worse though as they are an odd size, which is annoying)

My top utilities - Kinks, matrix mixer, stages, maths, shades, doepfer sequential switch

so what were you trying to do and did it work as you expected?

I see 2 outputs from the quad envelope to the quad vca that seem superfluous - the red and orange cables going into in 3 and 4 of the vca - there's no point listening to envelopes

I don't think Lugia is necessarily suggesting to buy a bigger case!! although I would strongly suggest that 104hp is a much more sensible starter case - and is still very portable, unless you are a small child!!

the idea is to create a much bigger rack on modulargrid so that you can add all the support modules that you actually need for the shiny black expensive modules that you have thrown in you rack and work out each voice so that you can work out how to have fewer voices in the same size rack you have here, but with the support modules that are needed to effectively play it and to be able to patch and repatch in multiple configurations - there is no point buying a modular that can only really be patched effectively 1 way

in doing this you will get a better understanding of what you need in the rack and not just what you want because it looks cool

make copious notes - how you would patch the synth etc etc taking into account things like how you will mix, why are there stereo outputs on the erica dsp, but nothing else is stereo (except the fx aid - I'd go for the XL - more modulation inputs - and probably 2 of these over the erica dsp) - how do you take a mono voice and send it to stereo (panning mixer?) the erica dsp takes the same mono input and copies it both left and right and then processes it - you have no control over this!

I hate odd sized modules - says he thinking very hard about getting an erica seq (it's the cheapest smallest sequencer with memory - i wish it was 4hp and not 3 though!!!)

it will lead to hard decisions - almost definitely remove voices or get a bigger case - or use a smaller sequencer - the nerdseq is overkill in this size case

once you have made the hard decision and implemented it in a modulargrid rack - come back here for a second round of is this actually a workable synth

small cases are notoriously difficult to set up - especially for novices

they are almost always compromises - functionality/playability

you may be better off with a doepfer system - the small one in a 6u/84hp case perhaps or just get a mantis (by far the best value/powered case) - yeah the go is cheaper - but it is a blindly built clone of the Mantis power supply in a bigger case - so underpowered for real world applications!!! the small case that you had printed will come in useful as an over spill case or portable case (btw I don't think the line input module will work - you need the case inputs to link it to - which you probably haven't got) I'd also double check that the 1u row is intellijel and not pulp logic design (do the rails have lips? if so it's intellijel) before you buy any 1u tiles

LxD is smaller than either optimix or modemix - dplpg is even smaller!

Maths is maths - it is way more than the sum of it's parts - see illustrated manual (google)

as almost always I would want more utility modules - in this case more mixers (for sub mixing audio and for mixing modulation), and more modulation before another vco (which won't fit in this case - as you haven't enough room for support modules)

a second VCO is a good idea - but only in a bigger case - in this size case 1 vco makes more sense - you already have a second voice in rings

if you like the look of the Two59 be aware it is primarily designed to work as part of a pair with a wavefolder between them to form a complex oscillator - it will work standalone (afaik) - but to get it to be like a buchla 259 you need to add the extra modules

for live coding integration I would be tempted to go with a dc coupled audio interface (RME/Expert Sleepers) and not mess around with converting to midi then sending it to the modular and converting the midi back to cv - this will take more time than -> sending cv as audio and having it immediately available as cv

another alternative would be a cv.ocd which is an external midi ->cv converter (but quite small and inexpensive)

Many thanks Lugia! Appreciate the help as my new case arrives this week and I want to build it right. Put the two VCOs and filters up top row and bottom row the mixer, quad VCA and quad envelope (Intellijel Quadrax) and leave space in left for more sound sources.

one or 2 maybe - remember they need supporting modules too!!

Do VCAs count as sound sources or control sources?
-- sacguy71

VCAs are neither sound sources or control sources they are sound and control processors/modifiers

good you got the sequencer working

if you are having issues patching it - possibly go to the Patches section and create a patch identical to what you are doing and paste it here with an explanation of exactly what you are trying to do!

Thank you JimHowell1970,

NP

For the quick reply. Question: how would I then patch VCOs and LFOs to the envelopes and sequencer to playback patterns if I patch the gates from the Varigate 4+ and envelopes to the 4 CV on my Intellijel Quad VCA? Would I route each VCO and LFO to the 4 inputs of the Intellijel Quad VCA and route the audio outs from the quad vca to a mixer or studio monitors?

-- sacguy71

VCO outputs to audio inputs on VCA

the intellijel quad vca is cascading - so has a mixer built in - send that where ever you want or patch each channel to a mixer -> monitors

use the LFOs to modulate the VCOs

Hi Agarthha!

you really need to spend some more time researching - and think bigger (case), but start smaller (fewer modules)

you probably don't need ears (at least for inputting from digitone) - both morphagene and clouds are stereo anyway - both also work at both line and modular levels - you might want the envelope following or contact mic functionality though

whilst ochd is a great module - I would expect something like a maths to be more suitable - it is more hands on and more versatile - you'll probably want more modulation that is controllable - there is very little control over ochd and it only offers triangle waves shapes ) that's not to say don't get ochd - but I would get maths before ochd - see the illustrated manual (google) and marvel at it's analog patch-programmable computerness!!

you may be better off with chaos rather than random - triple sloths for example instead of wogglebug - random is random - chaos is a bit more centered

I would also add a kinks and a matrix mixer to help create more interesting modulation and some filters and other effects - fx aid xl, for instance

you will almost definitely want vcas for both modulation and audio - get a quad cascading one - veils or intellijel - they can also double as inputs if you need them to - as both of those VCAs are actually amplifiers! veils also has decent saturation - idk about intellijel

you'll also want some basic envelopes for those gates - to feed the vcas - if you want more keyboard like pressing get ADSRs, other wise ADs or even Ds are generally fine for most things

I would advise strongly against starting with such a small case - 104hp/6u is a more sensible starting point ) this will leave you space to expand - you will need it - Mantis is an excellent inexpensive choice with good power - and it is still tabletop/portable

in a case this size I would really only want to try to get a single voice in, more than that and you can easily end up with significant issues that once that case is full are only solvable by either buying another case and adding more modules or removing modules and replacing them

it's significantly easier to start with a bigger case - work out what you need to support what you want and then if you want a small portable case - either additionally or as a "beauty" case for travel - you have an idea of what you will be able to fit in it and still have a working synth that you enjoy playing with

I would look at a mantis - great case for the money and still portable - unless you are a small child

if you are worried about spending too much too quickly on modules get some blind panels to cover most of the rack - they are not expensive - 40€ covers over half a mantis - and set yourself a budget - stick cash in a jar or something similar!

with the palette cases you are paying a lot for some buffered mults, 1/2 a midi interface and 1/2 an output module (maybe 1/2 an input module too) and the 1u row (which in terms of hardware costs the same as the 3u row)

personally I do not have any 1u and do not intend to - I would rather build or buy regular 3u rows - for example a mantis cost about 1/2 the price of a 7u/104 case - by the time it's full and there is need for what would be the 1u row - you could buy a second mantis (with the savings from buying one in the first place) and buy equivalent 3u modules instead of 1u tiles - and probably only take up 20hp or so - leaving 180hp free for other modules

@JimHowell1970, true passive mults are what you want 99% of the time for those 1v/oct cases.
No - but I think it's just a mistake :-) passive mults are what you want 99% of the time for those NONE 1v/oct cases

I have a few Noise Engineering modules on the way and since these are sensitive to modulation, would passive mults be enough to tame these for modulation purposes say if I feed an LFO into them? I did take your advice from earlier and order a Kinks and Links as well as larger hex VCA for the second case. Now I need the sequential switch, clock, and logic modules. I figure with the four VCOs and 12 VCAs that should cover that area for now in both cases. I will get these additional tools on Black Friday sale.
-- sacguy71

mults will not tame anything!!!
they make copies - that's all

attenuators are what you are looking for for taming modulation - passive ones work fine - I use 2hp trim modules

set varigate to 4 gates
patch out of each channel of varigate to an envelope
patch each of the envelopes to cv in on one of the channels of a quad vca
send 4 channels of audio to a quad vca
listen
adjust to taste

I disagree about buffered 4 channel mults being the way to go:

1 you only need buffered mults for v/oct

2 passives are significantly cheaper and you can spread them out better around the rack - and if you don't have space for them you can use headphone splitters etc just as well (or an actual passive mult)

vcas are an essential part of modular synthesis - @sacguy71 - you are just starting to learn why you can never have enough vcas!!!!