Me: "Oh yay, AJH Synth Wave Swarm is on the way from Perfect Circuit"
FedEx: "There's a $@%! black hole just east of Pacoima, CA. Your expected delivery is never."
Me: : (
... sigh, a week after shipping, no progress, no updates. It's back to "pandemic usual" with the carriers.
well i cant figure out how to set it up (patch it to work)with the doepfer clock divider?
-- Broken-Form
I've got this derived-square patch working on my system right now. Here's how I'm doing it:
1. square wave from any OSC patched to input of A160-2
2. take an output from A160-2: that's the result. Note this is POSITIVE voltage only.
3. apply a bit of offset (negative voltage) using a utility. I have ShadesV2 doing this. SISM would work fine, lots of others would work fine.
I'm getting a square wave at 1/2 rate. Varying settings on A160-2 gives me different pulse width on the output. Both audio and oscilloscope are showing me this works on my end. Note the result is just a lower version of the original square wave.
Of course, assuming you want to mix the original and the derived square, you'll need a copy (mult) of the original.
@Broken-Form, what is the problem you're having? Can you describe the patch setup you're using and what's not meeting your intentions?
I can tell you from experience on this end, my own "fat sub quest" took me on a runaround for YEARS. After a lot of buying stuff I thought would help and it didn't, I'm now pretty convinced my studio room is incapable of good bass performance (between 20-100hz); a credible studio acoustics shop confirmed my room issues, and quoted me about $9k of custom treatments to start to handle the problems. I will be making that investment at some point but don't have the $s now. The good news is I have some headphones that give me a pretty satisfying bass experience (Blue Microphones Mix Fi); yes it's not ideal to do all soundwork on headphones, but these phones give me the artistic / visceral relation to bass when I'm looking for that... IMO they are the 2nd best thing to being in a great room with great speakers. I do most of my work on my nice studio monitors, and when doing critical bass work I switch monitoring as I know there are still bass problems in my room setup.
In other words, the "fat sub" issue is maybe coming from your instrument, or maybe it is your speaker/room setup? Getting a good sub from your instrument really should not be problematic. The "fattest" subs are often primarily a sub sine, or sub triangle.
Last, I should point out, the Novation Bass Station is actually brilliant at low end duties. Not Eurorack, but a very worthy (and cheap!) piece of kit.
Anyways, yes let us know what isn't working on your end and hopefully one of us can suggest a good fix.
I grew up studying violin in the Suzuki method. At some point there was a quote framed in our house from Dr. Suzuki: “If a musician wants to become a fine artist, he must first become a finer person.” Maybe that’s true, maybe it’s not, but I’d like to think there’s something to it.
At the end of the day, if music isn’t about a shared experience of beauty or love, what good is it?
This thread above makes me sad… well parts of it at least. I wanted to pour some sugar on y’all. Thanks to all the people on MG who’ve helped me.
The original rack above looks pretty badass. I hope something great comes out of it.
Okay, so I ordered AJH Wave Swarm. Will let you know if this is great IMO or not.
In the meantime if there are further ideas (in addition to what's already above) I would be interested to hear!
Thanks, NG
... hmm, okay, so maybe I just flat don't understand Disting/O&C modules yet. I'll take a closer look.
The description of Turing as "string of random stepped, and loopable" makes a lot of sense.
Thanks!
@Ronin1973 that's a good suggestion. I've stayed away from Turing Machine type models mainly because I don't understand them, either as modules or in terms of potential musical use cases.
O&C comes up very recommended over and over. I've stayed away from that one and Distings because multi-use, menu-divey, extremely deep modules with big manuals are not my "cup of tea" right now. Having gotten into Eurorack in the last 12 months and bought a lot of gear, I still have much to wrap my mind and ears around with the more "basic" modules I own.
I'll need to flag the Turing types, along with O&C and Distings as "maybe future" modules for me to consider going forward, maybe for deep winter here in Minnesota, when an afternoon spent with a manual and a single module is a more agreeable idea.
Verbos Electronics Random Sampling is very close to Buchla Model 266 SOU yes? I nearly got the Verbos a few times but decided to wait. Partly I was waiting because that's a spendy unit; partly I was waiting because to my mentality, "chaos" seems a bit more musically useful than random. Am I off base here?
When the Tiptop/Buchla stuff appears, I'm likely going to want a fair bit of it! Yes that historical brand/tech appeals to me a lot.
@Exiannyc thanks for your post and videos, very interesting! And a very good point about feedback loops. I've been cautious about patching feedback loops in my setup... maybe its time to get on that!
A couple adds from my side:
-- my order from NLC showed up. Very cool stuff. I've spent most time so far with Hypster. Yes it is a chaos module but not what I was expecting. With stable settings, the output is very stable and repetitive. It is with changed settings (manually or CV) that the output varies, and in a very nonlinear way. So for example 1 or 2 LFO inputs to Hypster and the output will be pushed through a very dynamic and only partly controlled wavespace. That's my take on it so far, and I'm pleased to have added it to my setup!
-- also in my NLC order were TripleSloths, Neuron and Squid Axon. I have yet to really dig into these but am looking forward to.
-- I see Joranalogue has Orbit3 upcoming. This is also a chaos module. I LOVE the Joranalogue stuff I have so far, so I have to imagine Orbit3 is a capable offering as well. But I don't plan on getting this any time soon as my NLC stuff just recently arrived and should give me lots to play with and scratch my head over.
Thanks everyone for your ideas and comments!
It's on me for the "B-company" questions above...
Focusing back on this rack, I'd be curious to hear people say:
what's the best of this rack, e.g. the coolest aspects of bringing back these various classic designs in Eurorack and into a single case?
are there other killer classic adds to consider for (a bigger version of) this rack, maybe some Serge-type modules?
Net out so far is AJH Wave Swarm is likely the most suitable hardware option. Any other ideas on this? @Lugia, any ideas / comments?
Thanks @GarfieldModular. Sinofonion is one I've stayed away from for a few reasons. But I wasn't aware of the chaotic detune function on that. I'll take a closer look.
I hear you on the "superstacking isn't an effect but a design". But I want to unpack/examine that idea as there are some potentially important technical points for recreating this and similar effects.
If we say the goal is the sound of "unison stack detune with stereo spread" then I'm aware of 4 potential ways of getting this or close to it:
use a synth or OSC designed to do "superstacking" (as Ronin suggested). Lots of VSTs do this (or very close to it): Serum, Sylenth, Zebra2, Icarus2, etc. Some Eurorack OSCs do this: Chainsaw and a few others. Some hardware does it (Waldorf Quantum and others). One can do a basic version of this with any multi-OSC setup; Moog Model-D with its 3 OSCs slightly detuned sounds great.
use an Animator like AJH Wave Swarm or Ladik L-011 Animator. Ladik's text says "Think of it as VCO extension – exact tone tuning ensures your VCO and Animator creates 8 phase-shifted and endlessly moving waveshapes summed to Animator´s output. Sounds like 9 slightly detuned VCOs together, sounds simply FAT (8 shifted waves + 1 original from input). Contains 8 phase shifters drived by 8 LFOs at 8 different frequencies (34 opamps total)." SO, as far as I can tell, the "animator" technique is like mult (of original) plus phase shift, plus LFOs modulating phase shift at very slow rates. The Ladik module has no controls, the AJH module has gain controls and 2 channels (which would allow for stereo / spread effect).
use delay-based effects (chorus and similar). While I love chorus and use it a lot, I do not find the chorused sound or controls equivalent to the "unison stack detune with stereo spread" sound or controls. It is close-ish, but often not close enough. The "artificial double tracking" VSTS like Melda MUnison and Waves Reel ADT I am less familiar with, but my understanding is those are also delay-based, and I don't recall those giving a sound like technique #1 above either.
use a combination of 2&3 as found in Kilohearts Ensemble. That's the only VST I know of that gives a software implementation including technique #2 above.
So Ronin, I don't really disagree with your point above. BUT I am trying to answer essentially the question: can techniques #2 and/or #4 above produce a sound similar to that of technique #1, e.g. similar to genuine superstacking? OR is there some other great solution I don't know about yet?
Practically, I'm wondering, if I do a sound design session on my rack and come up with this complex OSC chain I'm loving, is there a practical way for me to get the "unison stack detune with stereo spread" version of that sound? I would blow my brains out if I had to try to get a slightly detuned version of a complex OSC chain in 3+ parallel Eurorack voices (e.g. try to manually do technique #1 in Eurorack). I'm hoping something from techniques 2,3,4 above could work. AJH Wave Swarm is top of the consideration set currently.
Thanks for your ideas everyone!!
Would somebody give me (and others not in the know on this) the short-ish polite-ish version of why Uli / Behringer has some negative market perception? Is it just all the clone-gear, or is it more than that?
Do you use these 3 racks at the same time (like one big rack) or do you use them (and must they stay) independent?
If it's basically 1 big rack then I suggest you make one big MG rack reflecting all the modules, with like modules fairly nearby.
I see a lot of modules I like, but IMO it is harder to assess completeness/balance with the modules spread out like above.
Also, if you use these modules altogether, a maybe obvious suggestion is you invest in new case(s) which will give you more HP plus more chances to consolidate racks. Over time, I've moved to bigger cases, my small cases still end up getting used for various tasks (e.g. I don't find it a terrible waste to have a small case or two left over).
[Edit]... so I did just go through module by module. Lots of good stuff, seems like a reasonable balance of modules all considered. If it was my rig being used all together, what I'd be thinking about next would be some combination of:
-- a bigger case to put everything in and leave some room for expansion, plus enough blanks to fill voids safely
-- an active switch like Switchblade or BossBow2 so you can sequence your sequencers, switch audio at audio rate, etc.
-- a complex OSC like Cs-L (mainly because I love those types of things)
-- a couple wavefolders, lots of interest to be had on that front
-- Joranalogue Morph 4 for use with CV and or audio. A versitile and powerful unit
-- some NonLinearCircuits chaos and logic circuits (TripleSloths, Hypster, Neuron, etc) to add more unexpected stuff
-- PNW's 24PPQN expander plus extra mults for easy clocking everything else off of PNW (unless this sync issue is already handled)
In other words, if you like and use everything you have, why not keep it, add HP when you can, and cherry pick a couple great adds when possible?
If you have to keep to an HP/budget limit for whatever reason, I'd suggest you drop the biggest item you use the least. Last I should say, it's already a powerful rig, you could skip all the suggestions above and still have lots of great stuff to make sounds with!
If I can ask a couple dumb questions:
-- what are the Behringer units clones of? Moog, ARP, others?
-- are the Behringer units good enough quality to merit purchase?
While I follow a lot of music tech, I've basically ignored the Behringer stuff because my sales guy at a US retailer you'd know has said the Behringer hardware has quality issues and he won't sell it to me (given my normal preferences for enduring quality). Is this off base? Is the Behringer Eurorack stuff solid or even great?
Yes it would be a lot of fun to have an "impossible in the olden days meeting of classics" rack like Lugia's above. Sigh, more $s...
Thanks @farkas!
-- Chainsaw is something I've known about, but stayed away from, because I'm not just interested in supersaw/supersquare, but more interested in superXYZ where I could take ANY waveform and give it stack unison detune spread treatment
-- AJH Wave Swarm looks like maybe something I will end up getting. From what I've read so far, it seems similar to Ladik Animator except WaveSwarm has more control and 2 channels in one unit. Great suggestion!!! I'm going to dig into that one's lit/vids more!
-- I have to say, Ladik Animator at only ~$100 bucks is something I might just try BUT the 8hp not crazy deep units are out of stock and only the 4HP crazy deep units are available. Those 4HP units measure 125mm/4.9" deep which is more than my Doepfer case can take at its deepest (4.5"). BUT if anyone has and loves these Ladik units maybe I would try to get the 8hp (less deep) ones when available...
Any other ideas / comments? Thanks!
Hi folks,
A favorite sound of mine from vsts is unison stack detune with stereo spread. "Supersaw" is the most common version of this, but it can be done with many waveshapes.
How to do this in Eurorack? Lets say I've got a great timbre out of DPO (or ANY OSC) and I want to give that the thick fat wide supersaw stack detune spread sound?
Ladik Animator strikes me as a possibility but: might need 2 modules, no controls on it to tailor the sound, and wouldn't handle spatial spread. But worth considering ...
[edit, added] I should say, I'm still trying to figure out how to do unison stack detune with stereo spread for ANY waveform weather it originates in eurorack or DAW. So if you have VST-based suggestions I could add to a chain to "superX anything" I'm interested!
[edit, added] Last, I must add (if only for my benefit) yes this stack/detune/spread idea is somewhat similar to chorus, but not exactly. VSTs like Serum, Zebra2, Icarus2 give the ability to make almost any waveform into a "superX" version with stack unison detune and stereo spread. There you can control: # of unison voices, amount of detune, amount of stereo spread, level balance between original and added waves. I find these controls give me a LOT more control over a tone (vs. a chorus) and let me get a sound that has more density, more power, and more control of stereo spread than a normal chorus. Which is to say, yes I like chorus quite a lot, but IMO chorus is not a substitute for a good unison stack detune spread function.
... SO, any ideas? Module and patch suggestions and or VST suggestions appreciated!
Thanks, Nicholas
@sacguy71, thanks for your ideas, I'll put VPME Euclidean back in the "maybe" list : )
@GarfieldModular, thanks for the ideas above. BTW I already have Vector + Expander... yes it is a beast. Lately I've been considering "what else might I add and why?" This thread plus some additional web viewing have convinced me multiple sequencers are in fact a great idea. Of course Vector has so many lanes you could already consider that multiple sequencers, and do some interesting things like combining or switching lanes with downstream units.
@greenfly, thanks for your response. I'm curious, how are you using those various units you mentioned? What are a couple normal use cases / patches you'd run on that rig? That's a pretty significant set of sequencing / clocking power!
Agreed, square wave into the Doepfer clock divider, and lower frequencies out from that. I've confirmed this works with my setup.
Additionally what I'd generally want to use:
-- original signal running into a buffered mult, so I can take the source signal, feed it to the Doepfer, but also have 1+ copies to send for mixing etc
-- a mixer to take 1 or more outs from the Deopfer and mix in various ways (with or without the original)
The FS version, according to a Korg UK rep who got cornered over this issue, was not necessarily "intended" for us avg. peons to buy. They actually intended them to go to certain "influencers" and whatever was left over was slotted for retail. Two things immediately went horribly wrong...
-- Lugia
Thanks for the explanation, makes sense.
What a waste!... I had briefly followed that Korg Arp release when I saw it come up in Sweetwater, but as the pre-orders immediately filled and I didn't have $ to put to it anyway, I thought "oh well, later or never." It really stinks they didn't just do a great job and make enough units to meet a reasonable chunk of market demand.
Mat, a few comments
-- re: PNW, what you said makes a lot of sense.
-- S&P and DUSG, IMO you might find more inspiring current alternatives, esp. if you decide to save some of your "I want Buchla-ish stuff" for when the new Tiptop/Buchla stuff is available. While I already have a LOT of modular stuff, I might grab a fair amount of the Tiptop/Buchla stuff when available... it may be just too tempting to resist, even if strictly speaking, I already have a fair amount of that functionality in my rack
-- last, I have to say, the "I want Buchla-ish stuff" urge could go a few ways. For me, a loose interpretation of "west coast" (vs "east coast synthesis") is accretive (vs subtractive), vactrols & LPGs (vs other standard filters & VCAs), happy accidents (vs played / programmed), and innovative / complex (vs "traditional / simple"). Which is to say, I find myself happy scratching a "west coast itch" with a variety of modules, some old some new some innovative, but which hit somehow the west-coast vibe and mentality. If you wanted to go in that direction also, it provides a lot more alternatives vs. having to hew closely to a few Buchla clones/offspring.
Good luck!
@Lugia, what was the problem with 2600FS Limited Edition and later "crippleware?"
Mat, this build seems pretty solid to me.
The 3 points I have questions about:
-- what will PNW be doing in this setup? It's a great module, but I don't see obvious uses for it here
-- why Scan & Pan vs alternatives or other uses of that HP?
-- why the DUSG? Wogglebug + ER101 + Quadrax + QX already give you a lot of CV for this size a rig, I'm not sure DUSG adds a lot of value alongside your other CV, and it sure takes a lot of HP. If this was my setup, I'd be tempted to put Joranalog Morph 4 where DUSG is. Morph4 is totally different than DUSG, but you could do interesting things in this setup with Morph 4 such as pull several outs from DPO and morph them (at LFO, sequenced or audio rate!) or use it to morph CV that's fed to something else.
That's just what I think when looking at this setup and how I normally work. If those modules are good picks for you, no problem.
Last, I should mention I consider 4MS SISM or Tiptop MISO important in any mid to large setup.
BTW re trying to emulate a Buchla setup, I watched the Tiptop / Buchla announcements today and it sounds like modules will be released here and there over the next 12 months. Between release dates and getting a module (they're likely to be popular!) it could take a while to get one.
Cheers,
NG
Mat, hope I'm not overcomplicating the issue. A few more comments:
-- yes there are a lot of options as far as "complex OSCs" go. Some of them are closer to the original Buchla inspiration, some further. We should add Frap Brenso to the list already above.
-- it IS worth reviewing the manuals, faceplates, and demo videos to get a sense of how these are same and different. Also worth of note is the NORMALING of signals in the module is pretty important and IMO kind of hard to really wrap one's head around unless spending a bunch of hands on time with the module. Also, IMO it is a bit hard to learn these types of modules unless one has a handy oscilloscope / FFT analyzer (like DATA or an in-DAW option), or unless one is already super experienced. I certainly needed DATA to help get a grip on DPO.
-- what may make the situation SIMPLER is, a lot of the options are known to be very good options. DPO is a well known and well liked module, and there's a lot of enthusiasm around C-sl and Mindphaser. The other alternatives, I know less well, but I don't know of a "dud" among them. So if you just picked one you're most excited about (and can get your hands on when you want, as stocking can be an issue), then it may be hard to go wrong in this area
Mat, a couple comments:
— if you are looking at DPO vs Verbos Complex vs Furthrr, may as well also consider Instruo Csl and Mindphaser. I personally love the “complex OSC” setup which is very west coast and to me a big change from what I experienced with lots of prior VST exposure. In other words I find that setup a breath of fresh air. DPO sounds great to me; the dual primary routing is very good and it has a fat warm musical sound to me. CSL a lot of people love but to me it sounds a lot thinner than DPO. Anyways there are some very strong modules in this set and it’s worth some good comparison and consideration. And whatever the spec sheets say, man DPO really sounds great to me…
— from the thread above I have to mention FSS Makrow and ADDAC 306 which are basically macro controllers in modular. I have a hunch 1,2,3 of those might be a great fit with your overall setup.
I’ll have to check out your videos!
Cheers,
Nicholas
Hi folks,
I should clarify, for the "dream voicing rig" questions above, DO assume the rig would also have enough CV, utilities etc. to operate well. In the rack above and related questions, I've included only voicing modules, so we can focus some discussion around "what constitutes great?" in Eurorack voicing setups.
I wouldn't want to be rude to anyone on the thread; your ideas and comments are certainly welcome. With that said, I will feel free to steer the conversation somewhat back towards the initial / central questions of the post.
Do we have other comments / ideas on what constitutes a "dream voicing rig"? Please consider in particular the first few postings (which offer the initiating questions and some rough constraints for our "thought experiment"). Thanks!
Ronin, Jim, Farkas, thanks for the comments above.
Ronin, I hear you on "the modulation sources and utilities are the "sauce" that makes the sound great." And this response is part of why I'm asking this question -- to find out how much of a voicing section people are finding useful / inspiring.
Yet in fairness, I can't think of another way to get the sounds I'm getting from two "power oscillators" interacting (such as Mindphaser modulated at audio rate by Odessa) or complex OSC outputs switched at (varying) audio rate, all of which happens in the "voicing" type modules (like above).
SO, might we say "the sauce (that makes the sound great) is where you put it"? I'm reminded of some Zebra2 patches by Howard Scarr (the sound genius who did most of the sound design for the Dark Knight movies) -- one great patch in particular where the OSC section itself sounds like sh8t BUT it is basically a bland impulse going to an elaborate FX section, where those FX in effect become complex resonators (and the defacto sound generators as a result). In that patch, the FX are the "sauce" but are not acting remotely like traditional FX. Hence this notion that, depending on the setup and patch, the "sauce" could potentially be anywhere...
I AM interested in digging in more to what Ronin & Jim are saying above and where they get their "sauce," if not so much from the "voicing" modules, BUT I fear that would take this thread into diverging directions. So how about this: i) I'll follow up with Ronin, Jim, and anybody else who's interested in a later thread that looks at some of their favorite rigs and what are the core modules / techniques for those rigs and ii) this thread, we can keep jamming about what's awesome (or not awesome) in the voicing part of a rig and why.
Thanks for joining me on this geeky thread : )
@oilpanic thanks for the mention of Fractio Solumn. That was one I amlost bought a couple times but then thought "can't I do that with my PNW?" Maybe most of the Fractio's functions can be replicated with PNW, BUT Fractio's immediacy (vs. PNW's menu dives) certainly argue for it IMO. Anyways it's a great mention, and maybe a module meriting addition to the setup above owing to its immediacy and musicality. I'll certainly keep it in mind.
It is asking a lot to just be starting in modular AND to design a solid small build.
My best suggestion is to look up forum user Lugia (who is super good at rack design) and review several of his small to medium racks. Notice the balance of modules: approximate % of things that make sound, % of things that make control signal, % of other stuff that a modular needs to run. Notice the “must have” items which appear in most racks. As Jim said, there’s a base complement of utilities that are a must for most stand alone rigs. If you seriously study 5-10 of those racks it will answer a ton of your questions and put you in a better position to get a good initial plan.
That said, there’s maybe no substitute to getting in the game, making a few mistakes, and learning by trial and error what will suit you. That also argues for a bigger case; so you have room to experiment and grow. If you can afford it, two cases would be good. A tiny one to suit your small footprint goals, and a bigger one to give you some room to experiment. Or in software using VCVrack to try some of your ideas, that can help too.
Good luck!
@Farkas thanks for the reply and ideas above. A few comments:
-- interesting to hear you say AJH is among your favorites. I've avoided that so far, thinking "what do I need Moog clones for in my modular?" That they sound "perfect" would be a good reason! I do love Moog sounds but thought I had that well covered from other non-modular gear. Maybe its worth my considering a select AJH add in the future (an OSC or Filter might be a most logical first choice)
-- yes it's likely answers to this post will be "all over the place" as you mentioned. I can say the pics and especially combinations can be really fantastic: I've had some real "wow" moments such as modulating Mindphaser with Odessa, or feeding a wavefolded signal into Morgasmatron, overdriving it, and "striking" the filter. Continuing to find deep and interesting combinations is an ongoing effort and joy.
It's very interesting to hear your views above, thanks again!
A few add on comments:
-- since posting, I've been wondering if this is a ridiculous question, as in "you don't need that much in modular" or "thinking in terms of 'sound sources,' you're missing how modular works." All told, if it is useless or counterproductive to have a large voicing section (like above), I'd like to know that and why.
-- but on further consideration, I think it is an interesting question, to me at least. Why? Because it raises at least two potentially important points:
++ what's the best of modular (in the sound-generation domain)? How many modules would you need to get a significant % of that "best of"?
++ looking at other "power synths" like Waldorf Quantum (hardware) and VSTs like U-he Zebra, Omnisphere, KVR Synthmaster etc., what does it take for a modular setup to meet similar sound-design capabilities (at least in 1 voice)? Where does Modular SMASH other hardware / vst options?
-- all considered, I'm hoping to get a better understanding of "voicing" options so as I go forward with modular, I can keep going towards "what makes modular great and unique"
Thanks all!
@Ronin1973, I've thought about dedicated Euclidean modules and here's why I haven't added any yet:
-- Euclidean Circles v2 (ECv2) looks cool-ish to me, but then I think about its cost and pros/cons and I can't logically justify it vs. other options AND I'm not so emotionally into it that I'll just say "f*ck you brain" and buy it anyway
-- yes PNW does Euclidean AND a 2nd PNW (if needed) might be as good or better an option than dedicated Euclidean items due to price (a little less) and function (a lot more)
-- I don't have a full comprehension of Trigger Riot's possibilities yet, but my current understanding is that a lot of what I might want out of a Euclidean module, I could get that or pretty close to that out of TR
-- I do have other "generalist" sequencing (not shown in the rig above) such as Vector+Expansion so lanes from that could do Euclidean well if I wanted to use them, though it might be rather manual programming
-- basically it comes down to I haven't seen a dedicated or specialist Euclidean module that I saw and thought "I need that" or "I really want that"... I nearly did ad ECv2 but then a rare bit of musical sobriety kicked in and I thought "it can wait till later or never"
Am I missing something about how $#@! awesome some particular Euclidean module is?
And on a partially related topic, I've not looked for a ton of "off-metrical-grid" capability either (e.g. doing multiple unrelated time signatures, multiple unrelated subdivisions, random gates etc.) because to the best of my senses, the popular-ish genres I'm interested in cannot tolerate too many musical events off-grid or off-groove; they can tolerate a little of that but not a ton. This hits what @Gorilla was saying above about "not too much clock complexity."
Anyways, interesting question / suggestion @Ronin1973. If I'm missing the point on Euclidean, or random, or very complex rhythmic systems, I'd be pleased to be better informed on the topic.
Joesh, a few comments:
-- I agree with Lugia, if you have space and $s for a larger case, why not leave yourself some expansion room? That said, Cangore recently put up a very nice small build (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/10432); yes it can be done.
-- PNW, Stages, Quad VCA, I have those, those are great. PNW is so good I'd recommend it almost without restriction. Stages is great also BUT since it is so flexible it takes some time and work to understand; I have DATA which helps a lot, I can run Stages into DATA to really see what the envelope is doing as I tweak stages. The Divkid video on Stages is also a big help. I would take Stages over Maths in a smaller build, but that's just me, I use Stages more than Maths. BTW the Loopop video on Maths is excellent, dispels a lot of the "wtf is this" questions. Aside from Maths, you could consider Joranalogue Contour 1.
-- you mentioned you have some external gear (sequencer) etc you would use with the new Modular setup. I would encourage you (if you haven't already) to fully think through how you link and synchronize those. It's very doable; it'll just save you some headaches
-- so much stuff is stocked out lately, I tend to go with options I like that are also in stock vs. waiting forever for a particular module to be available, who knows when it will?
Hope this helps!
Nicholas
If your computer is powerful enough (likely it is) then you can try out module and patch ideas on VCV Rack: https://vcvrack.com/
Hi folks,
As I continue my modular journey, I find myself wondering "what would be really great?..." for various sections of the modular setup. I've had some earlier threads on sequencing, DAW I/O, etc. Next I'm wondering about VOICING, specifically pitched (non-percussion) voicing.
SO, I thought I'd ask, what would be your "dream" voicing setup for non-percussion sound design in Eurorack?
To give some constraints to this, let's assume:
-- up to 20 modules total, including up to 8 oscillators/sound sources, up to 6 filters, and up to 6 anything else voicing-related (e.g. waveshapers etc.)
-- we won't bother to include any CV, sequencing, utilities, I/O for now
-- with the up to 20 modules selected, let's try to "get the best of modular" e.g. represent a high % of what modular is good at on the voicing side of sound design (e.g. avoiding loading up on modules with similar functions)
-- we will assume the rig is used for ONE or FEW voices at a time (e.g. not trying to optimize for high polyphony, just one or few really great voices)
Here's my v.1
Comments:
-- DPO and Mindphaser would be my pics from among complex oscillators. Yes there are other good options (like C-sl) but IMO these are very solid and a good complement to one another. I could be talked into better alternatives for complex OSCs if there are some
-- Trident and FSSOSC2 are my pics for additional analog oscillators that are super interesting, powerful, and unique to Eurorack as far as I know. I know of basically zero good direct alternatives to these
-- Shapeshifter is there for powerful Wavetable OSC capabilities; Odessa for additive; Erica VCO2 for grimy overdriven analogue
-- in filters, we've got Optomix for dual LPG, then 3 Rossum filters -- Evolution giving a great and flexible ladder filter, Linneaus giving a very interesting modern FM-ing filter, Morpheus a very flexible digital filter, then Morgasmatron as my favorite among dual filters (SFF Dipole being another great option)
-- my "other" pics are waveshaping/resynthesis; with Tain I can switch audio at audio rates; Bifold is a great waveshaper; and Panharmonium for resynthesis
-- that uses up 15 of 20 possible modules for this "exercise." What I don't have included yet is any granular stuff (as I don't know the good pics there well) or sampling (as Eurorack sample-based stuff has not been a priority for me, rightly or wrongly I see it as less convenient than VST options)
SOOOO... if you are interest in kicking around some ideas for a "dream voicing rig" I'd be interested to hear! Of course there aren't right or wrong answers here. But I am curious if we can drive to a "super solid, deep and interesting" voicing rig within the constraints mentioned above.
Thanks all!
Nicholas
-- re: MIDI options, there's a lot on this thread https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/10312 where I was recently reviewing what would be best for me on this front. I settled on ES-3&6 to go round trip to the DAW via ADAT (letting me keep using my main interface in Windows) plus a CVThing for more basic MIDI tasks including sending MIDI to grooveboxes, etc. IMO the "what I/O is best?" really depends on your setup and objectives. But you'll find a lot of food for thought in that thread, surely. Net net, IMO Befaco and ES have some very solid options covering a variety of use-cases, and I think there's a lot of good options for MIDI in.
-- FX Aid XL, I've heard great things about and would get one if I didn't already have some good enough solutions. I think its a very solid option, esp. for small builds.
-- this small a build, I can't personally make sense of, but if it works for you, then great!! BTW Lugia is great helping improve racks, esp. small / dense ones, so I hope there'll be a chance of getting some of his feedback for you before your rig is more finalized.
And yes, I'd also like to hear what this sounds like when you have a chance to post!
Very cool, thanks for the comments above guys!
A few module notes I'm compiling from recent investigations (compiled here for my reference and anybody else interested!):
-- Pamela's New Workout (PNW) is SO capable that it may preclude the need for other related modules OR it may make sense to get a 2nd PNW instead of some other modules. For example my Doepfer A160 modules don't do anything a PNW can't do (I think!) and the three of those cost more than a 2nd PNW would; wish I'd figured that out months ago. Anyway, food for thought: the answer to a lot of these types of questions might be "get a PNW or a 2nd PNW if you need that many channels"
-- There are a few brands that carry a lot of relevant modules for this domain: Ladik, EMW, Noise Engineering, and NonLinear Circuits (NLC). A few of these are discussed below:
++Some Ladik modules of interest include J110 Derivator & J120 Comparator for getting gates out of general signal (audio or CV); U-031 Gate to Trigger Converter and S-185 Gatsby Gatemaker for going gate to trigger or trigger to gate; S-195 Microdelay or U-090 Clock/Reset Corrector to give micro-offsets to correct for signals that may be too overlapping (such as when trying to synchronize clock/reset signals needed across multiple devices). S-195 or U-190 I may need if running a big patch with a lot synch'ed; we'll see.
++of EMW modules, Pulse Counter and VC Trigger Source stand out as options
++Noise Engineering has a LOT to offer in this domain, however much of it already overlaps with stuff I already have. Worth checking out though if you have fewer clock/gate modules and are looking for additional interesting pieces
++NLC has quite a lot of interesting modules in this domain https://www.nonlinearcircuits.com/modules?tag=Logic%2FGates If I didn't already have clock dividers / PNW I would consider NLC's. Most interesting to me next from NLC are 8-Bit Cypher and Divine CMOS. But I am waiting on an order placed 2 weeks ago for Squid Axon and Neuron. I'll need to wrap my head around those. Safe to say, if I wanted a bunch more "make a fun mess with gates" capabilities, additional NLC modules would be a likely go to.
++ aside from those main brands with lots to offer in this domain, there are other interesting offerings from ADDAC (their clock), Shakmat, Ornament & Crime (and its variants) and a few others
I'll probably circle back in the next day or two with a few more comments on musical applications (not so module focussed), AND I need to spend more time reviewing the video and comments above. Thanks for all the comments, its a big help!
Thanks Lugia, I’ll do some more research on those modules you mentioned.
Not sure if you didn’t see them, I do have Compare2 and Coherence in my lineup (row1 right). But some simpler comparators may make sense to add to those, and/or some discriminators. I don’t own any Ladik stuff yet; several of their gate/logic modules might make good additions.
I’ve also been interested in EMW modules (like their counter) but think those have been unavailable for a while? Pulse Counter and VC Trigger Source stand out as options.
As I think about this more, I find it’s not only a question of “what other modules” but also a question “what important or interesting musical use cases for gate/trig are not covered with the setup above”?
Thanks for your ideas and comments!
Some explanation of above rig:
-- imagine the signal is ultimately going to in rig modules (esp percussion) and / or routed out of the rig via CV Thing / ES modules in lower right. I'm not including any voices in this image above but yes there is plenty for downstream voicing
-- top row above is sources. PNW, Circadian, Trigger Riot give a lot of capability on that end. Followed by 2 comparators to derive gates from CV/audio in my broader rig. A few mults so I can copy any signal for reprocessing / redistribution
-- 2nd row (left) in particular is where I'd love some suggestions. I'm thinking of this as "modifiers" for clock/gate/trig signals. Already we have some Logic, clock divide / multiply units, gate delay, integrator (Bytom) and switches. I'm wondering what else might be great adds?
BTW the above rig is already up and running and it is crazy badass, I love it. I got into modular for complex OSCs like DPO but over time I'm finding the control (CV/gate) possibilities are fantastic. I'll appreciate any suggestions to make this clock/gate/trig setup better, thanks!!
Hi folks,
I've been building out the control portion of my modular rig lately.
For clock / gate / trigs I've basically got this:
I'm wondering what else might play well with these modules? Particularly I'm wondering what your favorite clock/trig/gate modifiers are?
I will add a bit more explanation in a next post.
Thanks!!
Nicholas
@Lugia thanks for the input above.
QQ: what level Furmann conditioner do you consider good? I find their product literature nearly useless; seems to me nearly the same marketing speak is applied to their $200 units up to their $3600 units—I can barely discern a functional difference.
I have Xaoc Kamieniec Phase Rotator, it sounds similar to the various Phaser VSTs I have, but of course is in eurorack. With rate and depth up, IMO it sounds rather similar to other phasers. With rate to minimum, I hear it as giving a static boost to whatever frequency you've set on the big dial, plus that kind of rubbery acid-y sound phasers make. I like that type of setting for a "quick acid" treatment to any sound I would want to apply. I like the unit, but in retrospect, consider it a bit expensive for what it is.
Wasp filter is one I will likely get at some point (if I wasn't already well stocked on filters). It gets so much praise and is a good deal.
Any other recommendations on power (routing, protection, conditioning etc) folks?
Ronin, thanks for the mentions above, I'll check them out!
An idea to add here, ADDAC405 is a "Relabi Generator;" it is a multi-mixing LFO complex CV and gate source. Hard to describe precisely in a short phrase here, but very reminiscent of what Ronin is discussing above. I NEVER see the ADDAC405 discussed on MG -- thought it is worth a shout out! I love ADDAC stuff!
a few quick follow ups:
-- my longer post yesterday was more along the lines of "cool ideas & prior posts for you to investigate" plus some module types you don't already have, if you wanted to consider a larger and spendier but more capable rig
-- I agree with Ronin and Jim above, it's a great idea to figure out # of voices you'll want from your rig at any one time, and what would be required to support those. If you wanted all your voices out of modular, as Ronin said, that's likely a bigger and more expensive rig
-- the practical, near-term edits I would suggest to your rig above are i) bigger case ii) add Ochd (for more LFOs), Gx (for more lanes from Metropolix), and SISM (for CV control). But it does make sense to go through the exercise Ronin mentioned first, before you commit to any additional modules and HP.
... thought I'd follow up with something more focused and practical (as my earlier post was not as near-term & practical)
Good luck, enjoy!
@Jihel, thanks for sharing that info above.
I checked our your bandcamp page, very interesting tracks!!
If you're up to share a few of the main patching configuration you use with chaos modules, I'd be very interested (as I'm sure would others). Your ambient work is some of the best I've heard, I'd be very curious to know some of your main setups for that. Of course you don't have to give away all your secrets ; )
Regards,
Nicholas
thanks @TumeniKnobs! BTW I lose a lot of TLDR posts, but have gotten in the habit of copying them before posting, and now almost never lose them...
Regarding power, I fixed a NASTY issue the other day by redoing everything to draw off of one outlet. Helped a TON. I never knew about "ground loops" before, but now I know they are real, and potentially very problematic, often in strange ways. So yes, I tried a setup more like yours, helped a lot! I'll need to keep this in mind for future adds/changes. I may bump into my circuit limit (15A?) pretty soon.
Regarding Furmann gear, IMO it's important to have some meaningful protection in line with expensive electronics. My $200 Furmann PL+C has been a great investment to date. My (limited) understanding of the Furmann lineup for studios is it includes:
-- voltage regulators: protect from too low or too high voltage, including potential surges and spikes
-- power conditioners: "clean up" power with the effect of reducing noise
-- uninterrupted power supplies: give you some time on battery in case of a power failure, thereby limiting or avoiding data loss etc.
-- power sequencers: give sequenced on/off. This is useful for large touring shows etc., maybe not so needed for normal studios
SO out of those, IMO the possible needs for a small to medium studio would be voltage regulation and/or power conditioning. Your M-8Dx already does that, so maybe the question is would an improved unit be worth while? That's what I'm currently pondering, the main upgrade candidate for me is the $~950 Furman P-1800, but I haven't yet determined if something higher or lower in the conditioner/regulator lineup would be more suitable. I'm in MN where the power almost never goes down except in extreme weather, so I wouldn't really consider a UPS presently. But maybe a UPS would be good in your area or for your uses?
CtrlA, CtrlS, Submit! ; )
