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Do you plan on playing the Buchla stuff by itself, or with a larger setup? Also, what do you envision doing with the Buchla stuff?

I just ask because they'll have different strengths and weaknesses. I have a friend who has an Easel Command (no touch keyboard, just a Keystep 37), and he pretty much treats it like a solo instrument and spends most of his time playing it by itself. Seeing a person run an Easel on pure instinct is as impressive as any other instrumentalist to me, and the interface is very enjoyable whether you're entirely conscious of what's happening or not. It is a great single instrument, but I think that means you'll want to interact with it a lot in order to get your money's worth from it.

I, however, own a small 84hp rack of TipTop Buchla stuff, and that works great for me. I mainly wanted to work some of the concepts into my setup so I got the 258t (I wanted sine wave FM), the 281t (I like looping envelopes), and the 266t (everyone loves the Source of Uncertainty) and finished it with some cheap passive low pass gates (enough for up to two oscillator-based signal paths and/or up to 3 percussion sounds using the noise in the 266t. If your plan is more to weave Buchla concepts into your existing setup like me rather than going deep into playing the Buchla itself, the TipTop stuff will probably work better. Slightly less ergonomic (though I think they're spacious and well thought-out for Eurorack, which you already seem fine with), but more flexibility and less financial burden looming even if you do a whole 6/7U case of them.

In short: only do the Easel if it's specifically the Easel and its layout/function that you like. If you're like me and just love the sounds and ideas associated with it more than any single configuration, maybe try the modules first. If you have the money and the urge, I feel like both paths are potentially rewarding.

EDITED Today, 10:51

Error Instruments and Erd pretty much specialize in this. Nonlinearcircuits has a lot of cool weird stuff. Mannequins/Whimsical Raps as well – their aesthetic is pretty obscure, but even when you get through the marketing and understand the modules, they still have a very unique take on whatever function they do. There's also the Instruo Scion, if you happen to have any plants.

EDITED Jan 21st, 10:35

You can always have a "best of all possible worlds situation" and get the super cheap, super fun, and mostly analog Korg SQ-1, which will allow you to keep the rack space for other stuff and still experiment with the kind of off-grid weirdness you can get with a flexible analog sequencer. It's less dense and capable than the Renee, but that may actually suit your plan more.

I would give serious consideration to an Ochd in this case (and maybe the expander if you're feeling fancy).

Rings would probably be a good call.

A resonant filter bank might also be worth a look, like a Serge ResEQ or the Erica Synths one. A dual/quad filter arrangement (like QPAS, Eowaves Tempetes Magnetique, or the Xaoc Belgrad) might also work. There are lots of options for both, so take a look around.

Be sure to balance modulation and utilities (both playable and flexible) with the effects so you're getting the most out of each module.

Only when you have enough VCAs.

Basically, I have three 3U 84HP "monosynths" (one based on a GTO/QPAS combo, one based on Tiptop Buchla modules, and one expanded Mavis) and then a home base rack with a Nerdseq, Sweet Sixteen, BearModules matrix mixer, Doepfer Octal Linear VCA, and some other things I wanted to try or plan to try but not necessarily take on the go with me. I like being able to take the "monosynths" to play with musicians in band settings while still easily being able to use them in tandem as a larger, more vaguely defined system at home.

EDITED Nov 26th 2024, 17:31

Matrix mixer is definitely a good one - if you don't mind investing in some right angle cables, the NLC Clump also has VCAs built in to make things extra-interesting. Spring reverb (like from Befaco or Music Thing) would also be a good call. Speaking of Befaco, a Rampage wouldn't be a bad idea. It's kind of like their riff on the Serge slope generator, and it'd probably be a big help in here.

I always liked the idea of the Black Noise Cosmos, but that's a bit niche. It's worth a look, though.

maybe with a zadar or dr phil ter, in a new thread, maybe in a couple months from now. im kind of obsessed with the idea of controlling 4 full voices from a brainstep in a not huge case. idk how im going to get over that to switch over to one or so fully sculpted voice, etc. thanks for commenting.

✌️
-- singular_sound

You don't really have to change the concept. The Demon Core isn't a trick. If you like it, you can totally get it and base your system around it. It even has the "gated" mode, so when you hit it with a note it will kind of automatically do the ADSR shape as indicated on the expander. With the Phil Ter, it'd be kinda like the Polymoog sound (think Gary Numan). It's not full subtractive polyphony but it does the thing. It's not the easiest way to learn modular synths, but it could be worse.

I know I'm walking into a trap here, and the joke will be all on me for getting involved, blah blah blah...but...

This is a (more or less) functional version of what you're talking about. It's just an example, and it's still a bit cramped, but hopefully this gives you an idea of how the things you mean to do can be accomplished in a way that does what you say while providing a number of musical options. I know you won't do anything with this information, but here it is, I guess. Enjoy your...concepts? If there are any specific choices you are curious about, just ask.

EDITED Nov 19th 2024, 14:39

Is there a way to make it so it greys out all the other options if a manufacturer chooses "Blank panel" so you can't choose anything else when it is selected? I don't know the process for submitting modules.

You'd have a much easier time figuring those things out via experimenting with VCV Rack or something, as opposed to trying to bounce ideas off this forum more than occasionally or using AI to explain it.

Can you be more specific about the contributions you hope to make?

well, theres not really any point in anyone else posting in this thread, is there. ... ... ...

gnight yall. ✌️
-- singular_sound

Nope. Not really.

Do you already have any of these?

What was your plan for it when you got it?

EDITED Oct 10th 2024, 00:11

If you want this all to have a certain rhythmic undercurrent, Pam's is probably the way to go. Also, a Toppobrillo Sport Modulator seems like it'd be a good calls for a noise/ambient case like this as well - lots of opportunities for going from modulation to audio rate oscillation and everywhere in between. I think it would fit this setup particularly well for how it can be both a self-contained drone synth in its own right as well as a toolbox for your modular setup.

An attenuverter or VCA would also be helpful here to give the textures even more movement and fill more space.

This is probably what I would do under those conditions to achieve what you're describing. You can fill up the Disting with samples and stuff before you go so there's plenty of extra drum options. Crust is also good because of the alternate firmwares. Both of those voices can cover a wide range and be more than just a single drum each with clever modulation. Veils is flexible and can be used for multiple things at once (like mixing two tracks of audio on one half and controlling modulation on the other half). Even if you take the Beatstep Pro, I think the Pam's, Tetrapad and Tete are unavoidable here. They seem to be most of your modulation and playability. If anything, the DFAM might be a better accompaniment for this than the Beatstep Pro, but it's all up to you.

EDITED Oct 2nd 2024, 07:24

The Nerdseq also has extensive Launchpad integration for a variety of functions, making it a lot more hands-on than it seems at first.

How are you sequencing your other stuff? If your setup has a clock/sync output or CV/Gate outputs, this may be enough to just run them side by side.

I have used 2hp modules before. I still have the Mix. Frankly, though, for this amount of money, I would say to not put a bunch of them in. They wiggle even if they're built rock solid, amd the knobs are not fun. If you decide later you need some function they provide and have to have it in 2hp, then go for it.

2hp Hat - You can probably skip this. You have noise in your setup. Patch the noise to a VCA/low pass gate/filter and ping the CV input/send it short envelopes. This is also sort of my advice about the Queen of Pentacles. If you try it and like it, then go with it (the filter and effects alone might bw able to help the modulation problem and give it some life). Whether you like the Queen of Pentacles or not, however, modular presents a great opportunity to synthesize unique percussion using the exact same tools you make synths with, as well as an opportunity to blur the lines between melody and percussion. The more you play with this system, the further away you'll get from assigning things standard roles like "drum/bass/lead".

2hp Euclid: Pam's has you covered here, I think. Plus the Oxi One.

2hp Arp: Another one where your sequencing hardware has you covered, but you've also got those quantizers to turn any modulation into an arp. A quantizer is almost always better for in-rack than an arpeggiator.

2hp TM: If you can make room for it I would 100% recommend the After Later Audio Alan instead.

Once you have a Rample and a 2hp Play, I can't help but think you should just try a Bitbox or a Squid Salmple - especially if you're also worried about the Queen of Pentacles and the SD card on the back. Maybe that's just me. Vocal one shots and all that can also be a 505 thing, but I'll leave that up to you. You can also look into CV to MIDI converters like the Befaco CV Thing or the Sweet 16 faderbank (a great multi-function module in general, albeit a big one) to allow you to send modular signals to non-modular gear like samplers and control their MIDI ccs for that modular sampling vibe. Sampling in Eurorack can be great, but this process will definitely help you decide what you want to do in rack or out of rack and where each task suits your needs, and you may find one of these options more suitable. I wanted to make a Eurorack sampler for a long time until I thought about it and realized that my Polyend Tracker and SP404 would let me put a sample anywhere I wanted in most ways I would want, and that unique but purposeful sample placement was easier to do there anyway.

The 2hp Pluck is admittedly hard to replace this way. There's always Rings or the QuBit Surface, but those are definitely bigger. People do like the Pluck.

There is one kind of 2hp module that I always suggest to people: passive low pass gates. I have the Takaab and Meng Qi brand ones and they are great for setting up quick and simple percussion out of any sound you throw at them, or just having extra signal paths for your oscillators that give them a unique character.

Overall, this seems pretty balanced. Usually imagined systems this big are a bit of a mess. More modulation is nice, so if you expand, definitely look there first.

The benefit of adding to a semi-modular synth is that you've already got a solid base to start from. In this sense, you're not too limited by order of module purchase. The main thing I would say is to just focus on what you want the most in here and then space out the voice/effects purchases as much as possible so you've always got a good balance of sounds to modulation/utilities. Pam's is an obvious pick for one of the first modules, since it is a compact way to explore a lot of this stuff and will help organize future purchases. Same with the Quad VCA, which you will find immediate use for (especially as a way of manipulating modulation from Pam's in a tactice way).

I probably wouldn't have the MIDI module right on the side - I'd move it somewhere else and put something there that I fiddle with a lot. Go with what works, though. You'd know better than me about that at this point.

EDITED Aug 21st 2024, 19:42

I don't think they meant that without utilities and modulation, you wouldn't be enough to make good sounds. The Atlantix can totally function on its own as a synth voice sequenced by the Metropolix and be patched and repatched to do crazy stuff. However, things like

• free-running LFOs and function generators with loopable envelopes that let your sounds get off the grid
• VCAs for controlling levels of not just audio, but also CV to make things extra dynamic
• envelope followers to have very specific experiments in modulation shape
• switches of various kinds to move and route signals in unique ways
• clock dividers to give more varied timing events in your setup

...are very simple circuits in the vein of classic modular, but they will make your one synth voice suddenly feel like a massive environment that is constantly evolving. There are obviously so many other random things I can't get into here because it would take too long, but these little things are where the fun it. Atlantix has the sample and hold, noise, rimg mod, and lots of cool stuff if you want to start here and get comfortable, but that's only the beginning.

I would recommend looking at these modules: Make Noise Maths, Make Noise Function, Divkid Ochd, Doepfer Octal Linear VCA. You don't have to buy them to get going (or at all), and this stuff you have in the picture here would be a good start while you ponder what else you might want, but at least look at these modules as stuff your module doesn't have that might complement it well.

You may want to consider getting the Metropolix Solo, where it has its own case with MIDI in and out. This will free up space in your rack to have other cool stuff without anything being too cramped.

Do you already own any of this?

I wouldn't add more voices. More modulation and VCAs, probably. Maybe something like a WORNG Vector Space or something like that where it makes a lot of modulation out of a couple sources. A matrix mixer is good for that, too - you can mix different CV and audio sources to make unique shapes and adjust them on the fly. It seems pretty complete to me, otherwise.

Was there something specific you wanted it to do? It might actually help if you're specific about which parts work less for you.

Do you mean that you use the Octatrack/Rytm to generate samples and modify input, right? Just confirmimg that this rack is primarily being used to make synth sounds (aside from the Sample Drum).

EDITED Aug 6th 2024, 18:09

Spring reverb is always nice in a hardware effects setup. Doepfer has a nice simple one.

You could also just get a Finegear Dust Collector to go with the rack, but that might be a little overboard.

Another option is a Poly Hector. It has Rings and Clouds in it plus a lot of basic effects, modulation, and routing tools that would take a lot of space in another rack. It's a touch screen, but it has a very effective interface that makes it easy to tweak and adjust.

EDITED Aug 2nd 2024, 00:04

You would just go looking for a 10 pin to 16 pin Eurorack ribbon cable. I find this is actually the ribbon cable I run into most - more than 16 to 16, at least. When you buy more modules that are not standalone, they'll often come with this cable, and it will occasionally already be plugged in.

Do you plan to use this entirely on its own or with other gear?

Theoretically it should be fine. It's a lot of voices at once, but that could be good for layering or audio rate modulation or something.

Do you already own all these?

One big button that says "Push here for Talent"
-- wishbonebrewery

I believe they call this "generative music".

I should say that I double-checked and the Sweet Sixteen does not have MIDI in, so I was incorrect about MIDI to CV conversion. However, you seem to have that covered already, and this would allow you to go the other way - convert CV to MIDI to control CCs on your other stuff with your modules (might be good for some of the stuff on the TR-8S that's in menus). I just wanted to correct myself and not have you make a decision based on my mistake.

edit: turns out I mentioned MIDI to CV conversion somewhere else. Still good to point out.

EDITED Jul 1st 2024, 00:21

What you want is the Sweet Sixteen fader bank (which I seem to be bringing up a lot lately). It's an adaptation of this open source module concept, but it also has inputs in addition to outputs, allowing it to do the purely CV-based attenuation you want.

EDITED Jun 30th 2024, 22:17

A Sweet Sixteen might be good. 16 faders that can be used for attenuation, offset generation, MIDI control or I2C connection. I do not have one, but it's what I want to fill the space in my rack.

Even if you just see it as 16 attenuators/offset generators, it's a pretty useful tool for centralizing control in a big rack like this. You could then throw in something like a DistingEX, which is normally not very hands-on but has lots of useful effects algorithms and utilities (among other things like sample playback and polyphonic synths), and control the EX with I2C/MIDI to have hands-on access to multiple parameters without menu-diving.

I'm not sure if you wanted that kind of control or maybe a different kind like a touch keyboard, but for the space we're talking about I think this kind of control will be more usable in the rack, whereas that problem is better solved externally so you have space for your fingers to actually do stuff.

Are you still doing a third row?

If you do a third row, it should be entirely utilities/modulation/VCAs/attenuverting. Maths is a good one (though it's not a VCA). Free-running LFOs, envelope generators, sample and holds, random modules, and more will give you interesting freeform contrast to the more steady rhythms from the sequencers. These are all cool sound sources, and if you perform with an Analog Rytm and/or Syntakt as well, this should just about work, but you need more stuff to make it all move. More than anything else, moving voices and sounds around freely and uniquely with modulation is what makes modular sound special relative to regular complete synths and grooveboxes.

I would also take a look at bigger, more playable filters. Big cutoff knobs. Or at least put those near the ends so they're easily accessible.

You don't need dedicated drum modules unless there's a specific one that does something you love and can't do any other way. The BIA is actually a good one for a tightly packed case like this since it basically operates standalone and is very flexible, doing way more than just standard drum sounds. Generally, though, it is just as easy to make drums from a basic synth setup (oscillator into VCA/filter opened and closed by an envelop or other CV) as it is to make a synth sound with them, and modulation/clever patching can help you blur the line in unique ways. You can even get a matrix mixer to help you smoothly move and combine modulation in your rack to change stuff from melodic to percussive.

EDITED Jun 22nd 2024, 21:25

VCAs, attenuverters, and more modulation. Preferably with knobs that you'll enjoy using.

There seems to be three goals going on here at once:

1. Play saxophone through modular tools and effects to alter its sound.
2. Play saxophone and have it trigger samples and synth sounds in the rack.
3. Play saxophone alongside synths and samples being triggered/played by the rack itself.

If your goal is to do all three of these, I would focus the first row (at least) that you try to put together entirely on goal 1. The Minibrute 2S can cover sounds for now, and I can't imagine you not having another easier way to do samples for now. For now, think about a) getting the sax sound into the modular in a way that sounds acceptable to you and b) modulation. The last one is the main thing missing here: the main reason to do this instead of pedals is the way modulation moves and shapes the sounds in unque ways. I would save extra synth voices and samplers for later and just focus on getting the sax and Minibrute 2S to play together. As for input, also think about emvelope following - turning the amplitude of your sax signal into modulation is a huge part of the potential fun here.

This one has some promising elements. The Barback and Knit are probably unnecessary, but could come in handy for later. Instead, that space might be better served by a Maths, a quad/multi VCA and attenuator, some logic stuff, a mult - the stuff that sounds boring but kind of makes systems workable and flexible. You also may want to look into something to convert modular voltages so they're safe for pedal expression inputs - if you already have pedals, there are many ways to bring them in on the fun here.

I saw you put the Meta-Module in there. Have you tried this concept in VCV Rack yet? Or even with an Empress Zoia or Poly Effects Beebo? Not necessarily as an alternative, but even just as a place to demo patches/module concepts, experiment with them, and potentially cover some ground that would be difficult and expensive in modular (that met. Especially since you'll be busy playing saxophone and not turning knobs as much. I had a Beebo and not only does it have a lot of ports of Mutable Instruments stuff like Plaits, Rings, Marbles (all stuff you have here), but you can use it as a MIDI controller to send Eurorack-style modulations to different MIDI CCs on stuff you may already have.

The Nerdseq. It turned my modular stuff into a proper setup rather than just a collection of bits I liked, but it did so without making my music too unnecessarily normal.

https://modulargrid.net/e/addac-system-addac301-floor-control-black-panel

This and an expression pedal.

May I ask about your experience with Black Noise Cosmos? Im very interested in this kind of modules. I also consider Ana 2 from mystic circuits. Could you tell me soemthing more about its use and benefits?
Right now I use Pamelas Pro Workout for logic stuff, but Cosmos and Ana seem to be very cool.
Im wondering, how something like a Cosmos could expand my possibilities? (In Pams you can also dial in specific logic operations and apply it on the inputs + add more operations with the cross channels)
Maybe there are some cheaper 1u alternatives?
-- VONDENFUNKEN

I don't yet own a Cosmos. I've watched the Stazma video and read the manual a few times. I would say I just kind of liked the mystery of it at first and then started thinking of it as a smaller way to get what I wanted from the WORNG Vector Space (I might still go this route instead, because it's like half the price) or the Mannequins Cold Mac (I gave up oj this when I realized how difficult acquiring one of these would be without some sort of crime): a way to get a lot of related modulation in a small space from a couple sources. The Ana 2 would probably work as well for this sort of thing, and has the benefit of knobs, but I personally don't mind big dense patches full of cables and like the patching process, so the Cosmos appeals to me in that way as well (plus the touchplates seem fun) All three seem like an inviting way for someone (like me) to teach themselves more about these functions and what they do musically. I don't have a 1U strip on any of my cases and tend not to think about that - someone else would have to speak on that. I mainly recommended the Cosmos here because it's a cool module that comes on DIY format and would probably suit a classic rack like this that uses simple tools well.

EDITED May 28th 2024, 08:48

I wouldn't call it cheap, but the Black Noise Cosmos would fill that 12hp right up and comes in a DIY kit. It's sort of an endless patching wormhole/analog computer thing like Maths or the Serge world. If you like eclectic and unique concepts like the NLC modules, it is an option.

If that doesn't suit you, I second the matrix mixer, but if I were you, I would only get the AI Synthesis one if it's going to be in the top corners or if you plan to arrange it upside down. Otherwise it'll just be buried behind two rows of cables.

One thing worth considering here is a) a matrix mixer and b) some kind of switch setup like the Doepfer A-182-2. They'll help you facilitate changes in your setup without having to do a lot of repatching (I like repatching, but it ian't always convenient).

A Pip Slope or other small and simple envelope generator is not a bad idea - Maths is good for envelopes, but if you have the space it's nice to delegate such mundane duties to other modules. You can also take the envelopes from the Mother-32 and use them for other stuff as well.

As for VCAs, you're fortunate here in that the Moog synths, the QPAS, and the Plaits all have their own built-in VCAs, meaning that the practical aspect of them isn't a huge deal here. The STO doesn't, but that's fine - you can always find one for it out of what's already here, or you can even use it as an audio rate modulation source to get different FM sounds with your other oscillators.

The Optomix is not just a VCA but a low pass gate, so it combines VCA and subtle low pass filtering to give audio a specific character based on how natural acoustic sounds work (as they get louder, they get brighter). If you wanted to explore this in a cheaper form, some of the best cheap small modules available are the Takaab 2LPG passive low pass gates, one of the only 2hp modules that works fine aside from mults. Not only are they great for audio and CV, but they have a switch so you can control how much filtering they do and use them as a plain VCA if needed. However, the Optomix is a nice module with nice knobs, so if you want to throw money at this particular concept it's a good choice.

With what you have here, I'd mainly be thinking about VCAs for modulation (you can't go wrong with a Doepfer 130-8) as well as some kind of attenuverter/offset module like the Tiptop Miso, Frap Tools 321, or Happy Nerding 3x MIA. If you're not sure what you want from all these different VCA/attenuverter options, a good choice might be an After Later Audio Cloaks or an Intellijel Quad VCA, because they have lots of options to use them as variations of all these things so you can figure out what makes the most sense (switching between unipolar and bipolar, switching between linear and exponential, etc). While the Tangle Quartet is good (people say it is very high quality), it may also be worth looking into one that switches between linear and exponential, because it's hard to get a feel for why that matters based on description alone. It's up to you.

Basically, all of this seems fine to me in terms of basic building blocks, but now you need to think about quality of life modules to make this stuff as easy to use as possible.

How do you imagine all these extra parts being sequenced/played? A Keystep 37 probably won't be enough even if the Moogs sequence themselves. If your goal is to experiment with generative and uncontrolled stuff, you may want to look into quantizers. That way you can take any modulation of any kind and turn it into a melodic phrase by having the quantizer turn it into 1 volt per octave signals. Throw in some gates/triggers from a different source (Pam's, Maths, etc) and suddenly anything in your setup is a source of unique melodies and arpeggiations. Pam's does quantization if I recall, but there are other options if you want to free it up. Splitting your note/pitch events and timing/trigger/gate events in this way is probably always going to be the best way to use your modular's generative composition possibilities to their fullest extent without feeling too much like you're not doing anything.

I say they're welcome to boss you around on how to use and rack them as long as they buy them for you as well.

A Disting EX. You'll never get bored, you'll have multiple ways of playing polyphony and you'll have tons of space and tools to do other stuff as well. Get it even if you still get the Coral.

Are these modules you use and own already? It's a lot of voices for one setup, but with ambient I understand there can be specific workflows people develop.

I dont know. I would ditch the ochd. Case has 2 lfo's.
Also for ambient u'd want a reverb. not sure if nautilus can do that? (or any other module for that matter)
Where are the envelopes? (guess pams?) I see very little modulation options here.
-- Chrissozz

Why ditch the ochd, then?

EDITED May 11th 2024, 21:49

i just like how datach'i s case works on system and how its one instrument, and also, the physicality.

-- singular_sound

How would you say it works?

hey zachsname: what if 'momentum dies while menu diving on a pam pro to sequence some random bs' is a super aesthetic sound that no one has ever tried before, huh?

p e a c e . . . .
-- singular_sound

In a way, your humor is not even really being done with yourself as the audience. You just kind of seem to be using it to dive headfirst into the void by choice, leaving everyone and everything else behind. Whoever it is you resent here, I hope you won't let them get in the way of your work and your music. You're clearly interested enough to get here and do all this.

I think you'll have better luck sticking to the DAWs to find your signature sound based on the descriptions you've given me, and that further experimentation will help you build more "aesthetic" designs that both work better and are less chaotic to whoever sees them. Definitely check out VCV Rack, where you can not only build these fantasy systems, but also patch with them and make songs and show off your jams to people. Not everything on VCV Rack has a real life counterpart, but it will be more helpful than just sort of guessing what you might enjoy from research alone.

Do you have any music you've done with other stuff so far?

Yes. All of that will theoretically work to make your idea more intelligible, but it will also render portions of this setup redundant. It doesn't really make this design of self-contained cases make more sense, but just introduces extra steps to your workflow. Inefficiency can't really be justified as "maximalism" - you should get more from more, not less.

You have definitely been uninspired.