"Normalized"

Can someone help me understand what it means when a specification for a module states something like "The right VCA is normalized to the left VCA" both from a technical perspective but also from a 'use-case' perspective?

It just means that the input is connected to both outputs unless something else is connected to the second input, breaking the “normaling”. For instance, I have the NE Quant Gemi where the first input is normaled to all four outputs allowing me to run the same pitch cv to four oscillators, or I could run the first pitch cv to two oscillators and plug a second pitch cv into the third input and connect outputs 3 and 4 to two more oscillators.

In the case of your VCA, you could run a single audio signal into your VCA but use two different envelope shapes to each VCA and then send the outputs to separate effects/filters/etc for stereo treatment, maybe?

Here's a good example: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/mutable-instruments-veils-2020

If you look at the bottom row of jacks (in the gray box), you'll also see a set of little arrows pointing from one jack to the next. By plugging into the #4 output, you'll get the signals from all four VCAs at that patchpoint. But if you wanted to "split" that module, you can. Let's say you have two different voices that you want to send to a Veils for amplitude control, but you also want to keep the different outputs separate. With "breakable" normalizations like this, you can pull one voice through the first two VCAs by jacking into output #2, as that will break the normalization between #2 and #3 and effectively split the Veil in half so that your other signal's output is on #4, even though you're using just ONE module.

And yes, this appears on other points besides outputs. Have a look at Intellijel's Mixup. On that, you can use inputs 3 and 4 as either stereo (by patching L-R signals into those inputs) OR mono...because there's those same arrows again, and those mean that you CAN use mono signals on 3 and 4 simply by connecting those to the "left" inputs alone. The input normalization does the rest.

DAMN useful! More manufacturers really should jump on this...

Thanks @farkas and @Lugia, definitely helps me understand that...

Another question, using the example of Veils (since I have it)..if I go into inputs 1 and 2 with stereo outputs from, say my Disting EX, and then out from just output 2...is that signal stereo or summed to mono, or maybe its just the R channel of stereo signal?

I don’t have Veils, but I believe that would be summed to a mono mix of inputs 1 and 2 on output 2.

@farkas is correct...
if you want stereo use 1&2 for L and 3&4 for R

@farkas is correct...
if you want stereo use 1&2 for L and 3&4 for R
-- JimHowell1970
Wait, now I'm confused...if i run my stereo out (1&2) from Disting EX into Veils 1&2 Input and Veils 1&2 output to stereo 1&2 input on my Cosmix, that would be stereo all the way to that Cosmix channel, right?

I guess I don't understand what you mean by 1&2 for L and 3&4 for R...are you saying I should go Disting EX stereo out L into Veils 1 and Disting EX stereo out R into Veils 3?...then Veils 1 & 3 into my Cosmix stereo inputs?

for example :
disting ex L out into veils input 1
a.n. other stereo module L out into veils input 2
disting ex R out into veils input 3
a.n. other stereo module R out into veils input 4

veils out 2 -> a L input on the cosmix
veils out 4 -> corresponding R input on the cosmix

mult envelopes as appropriate

or if you just want to use 2 channels for disting

disting ex L out into veils input 1
disting ex R out into veils input 2

veils out 1 -> a L input on the cosmix
veils out 2 -> corresponding R input on the cosmix

this leaves you with 2 channels of veils which can be used for more interesting things - like modulation!

if you are using up all your channels of veils for vcaing audio - I'd strongly consider a 2nd one that you can use for modulation!!!

for example :
disting ex L out into veils input 1
a.n. other stereo module L out into veils input 2
disting ex R out into veils input 3
a.n. other stereo module R out into veils input 4

veils out 2 -> a L input on the cosmix
veils out 4 -> corresponding R input on the cosmix

mult envelopes as appropriate

or if you just want to use 2 channels for disting

disting ex L out into veils input 1
disting ex R out into veils input 2

veils out 1 -> a L input on the cosmix
veils out 2 -> corresponding R input on the cosmix

this leaves you with 2 channels of veils which can be used for more interesting things - like modulation!

if you are using up all your channels of veils for vcaing audio - I'd strongly consider a 2nd one that you can use for modulation!!!

-- JimHowell1970

Thanks, that makes sense...technically, I don't know that I "need" to have the stereo out from Disting EX..there is a seperate mono output as well...I have been "playing around" with the stereo output going through Veils and then to Cosmix..but then taking the mono output through FX Aid XL and into a mono input on Cosmix just to play around with adding some 'textured' effects from FX Aid XL to the stereo signal...again just for fun/learning purposes. I also have a Happy Nerding 3X VCA that I could use for that if I really wanted to I suppose. Currently I'm just using the multisample function of Disting EX to play around with drums so I don't really need to use that for stereo at all, but I imagine if I wanted to use some sort of strings or piano or something, that I might want to use stereo at some point

yeah stereo is a newish thing in modular - as is polyphony

nb a lot of the fx aid xl algorithms are mono to stereo so you can take a mono signal and stereo-ize them!

can you not pan the samples in the disting ex multisampler??? if so, it might be interesting to pan them like a real drum kit...

basically to re-iterate normalisation is basically chaining things together in a way that is breakable by inserting a patch cable in the path of normalization - which is why veils is a good example (the original is easier to understand for this in lots of ways as the jacks are next to the channel controls

put simply normally channel 1 output is added to channel 2 output is added to channel 3 output is added to channel 4 output

but if you plug into the output of say channel 3 you get:
channel 1 output is added to channel 2 output is added to channel 3 output
& chennel 4 is separate

but if you plug into the output of say channel 2 you get:
channel 1 output is added to channel 2 output
& channel 3 & channel 4 are added - unless you also plug into channel 3 output in which case they are separate

A normalled jack is different from normalizing, people should be careful not to interchange the two terms. Normalizing involves altering the gain of audio, normalling involves behind-the-panel connections between circuits.

yes but the issue of which is which only comes up out of context, within context, I think it's a bit pedantic, don't you, really?

A normalled jack is different from normalizing, people should be careful not to interchange the two terms. Normalizing involves altering the gain of audio, normalling involves behind-the-panel connections between circuits.
-- snowtires

Very true. That's why I attempted to use the correct terminology in my first response. I actually thought about making this distinction in my response as well, but figured it was an honest mistake.

yes but the issue of which is which only comes up out of context, within context, I think it's a bit pedantic, don't you, really?
-- JimHowell1970

There's nothing pedantic about using the correct words to describe things.

A normalled jack is different from normalizing, people should be careful not to interchange the two terms. Normalizing involves altering the gain of audio, normalling involves behind-the-panel connections between circuits.
-- snowtires

So instead of stating "The right VCA is normalized to the left VCA" the builder should be saying "The right VCA is normaled to the left VCA"?

EDITED Sep 28th 2021, 01:47

Yep

put simply normally channel 1 output is added to channel 2 output is added to channel 3 output is added to channel 4 output

but if you plug into the output of say channel 3 you get:
channel 1 output is added to channel 2 output is added to channel 3 output
& chennel 4 is separate

but if you plug into the output of say channel 2 you get:
channel 1 output is added to channel 2 output
& channel 3 & channel 4 are added - unless you also plug into channel 3 output in which case they are separate
-- JimHowell1970

so do the inputs break the chain or the outputs? that's a thing, my brain does not seem to grasp.

if only the inputs break the normalling-chain, then the outputs could be used as multiples.
if the outputs break the chain, then one could use veils as a mixer.

i'm probably too stupid for normalling? :)

so do the inputs break the chain or the outputs? that's a thing, my brain does not seem to grasp.

if only the inputs break the normalling-chain, then the outputs could be used as multiples.
if the outputs break the chain, then one could use veils as a mixer.

i'm probably too stupid for normalling? :)
-- lauschepper

it's the outputs - think of it like a mixer

These "breakable" busses are actually really simple. What you've got is X number of outputs, but behind the panel all of the 3.5mm jacks are the type that has a "through" that can be broken when you insert a cable. That's where your "broken bus" comes out, as the jack arrangement sends signals through until it finds a cable in the bus, and the connection breaker in that jack sets up the new "output" when the cable's plugged in.