external oscilloscope?

Are products such as this suitable as an external oscilloscope for a eurorack system?

Hantek 2C42 Handheld Oscilloscope Multimeter 2 in 1 Multifunction Tester 2CH+DMM 40MHz Scope: https://www.amazon.com/Hantek-Handheld-Oscilloscope-Multimeter-Multifunction/dp/B07PWZV4XJ

I'm really unclear on if I can run a patch cable directly from one of my modules into this device. I'm also not sure if this oscilloscope works with DC signals. It says the multimeter is DC, but nothing about the oscilloscope.

I'm looking for something on par with a Zeroscope in terms of:

• View two signals at once
• A grid with the option to see where +/-10V is, and ideally +/-5V too
• Support for audio and DC signals

Any recommendations? Or am I really better off using a module with an oscilloscope designed for eurorack?

Tangentially: I have no multimeter and I'm thinking that would be useful for testing hardware for issues, recalibrations, and building DIY modules. But I see I can get a dedicated multimeter for a tenth the price.

generally you'd want to get 3.5mm to bnc cables - but this oscilloscope doesn't seem to support them - possibly better searching for scopes that are recommended for eurorack users (try searching on modwiggler!)

I'd probably look around based on those (they'll probably be a little bit more expensive though - unless you can find a slightly older module used...

I just use a cheap multimeter for checking my DIY builds...

personally I'd go for a expert sleepers interface (which I have) and use one of the scopes in vcvrack if I needed it - never have though...

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 06:56

Naaaah...what you need, if you're getting an external scope, is one that can ALSO be used in an X-Y mode. If you're doing a lot of bassheavy stuff, keeping an eye on low end phasing is a MUST, and a dual-tracer in X-Y can give you phasescope results when you connect the two stereo channels to the two inputs on the scope. Why? Well, if you're tracking for vinyl, you'll find that bass signals below somewhere around 120-180 Hz can cause SERIOUS problems for the lathe engineer. So as a rule, bass below that certain point can cause havoc if it's out of phase, so it gets summed down to mono for vinyl. Keeping an eye on phasing while mixing, also, helps you get to better mixes with some practice, especially when doing a lot of panning and other screwy imaging processes.

FYI, eBay has a pile of suitable o-scopes for $200 and down...just make sure that you get one that's dual-trace with X-Y capabilities.

EDITED May 8th 2022, 02:46

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 06:56

I'm not really sure why you would buy a scope to do what is essential mixing/MASTERING.

I should have given more context. That's not what I'm doing.

The scope is mostly used for looking at DC/modulation signals. When I'm trying to finesse a modulation signal with an attenuation and offset, for example. Or when I get new modulation modules, helping me understand exactly what they are doing so I can figure out how to use them best. It's for testing signal flows within my patch when things aren't working as expected.

I guess I approach patching like software programming and the CV scope is my debugger. Although I sometimes mindlessly experiment, I often have a specific idea that I'm trying to pursue and sometimes I need to see what's going on to make it happen. To give a specific example: One thing I like doing lately is feeding an LFO into a waveshaper and then into a clock-triggered quantizer. It's really helpful to see what's going on there while looking for the "sweet spots".

Asking about external scope options comes from the fact that I have a Zeroscope 1U and it is very useful to me for these purposes, but I only use it when I need it which is not most patches, so I want to swap it out for more "day to day" utilities.

I know the correct solution here is to get a bigger/second case and keep using the Zeroscope, but I was wondering if there's an affordable external option that could be useful for other purposes, such as in DIY contexts. I was also just curious how you connect a modular system to a general-purpose scope. It wasn't obvious. Thanks for pointing me to https://www.threetom.com/product/threetom-wiretap/

I like this suggestion:

personally I'd go for a expert sleepers interface (which I have) and use one of the scopes in vcvrack

If I can get a DC signal into my computer then I can do whatever I want with it. It probably makes more sense for me than buying dedicated hardware. I'm not sure I'm equipped to do that at the moment, but I'm going to keep this option in mind.

I'm not really sure why you would buy a scope to do what is essential mixing/MASTERING.
-- Vow3ll

Well, you do see an awful lot of them in mastering transfer desks back home..."back home" being Nashville.

The main check for it is to see if there's anything that's so out of phase in the low end that the engineer needs to go back and perform some bass summing to correct that...before it either 1) wrecks the cutter head, or 2) cuts a lacquer that's unplayable. Now, for digital, it might seem that an o-scope isn't useful, but I also use mine when doing various stereo manipulation methods (like expanding the stereo field beyond the L-R between the monitors) and to check if there's something that's creating a spatial "lump" that needs correction so that the stereo field can feel properly centered. Mastering really is something of a "black art", though...the sessions where I did some of that while learning were a revelation in RElearning how mastering sessions work and what's essential for them, coz classroom teaching and/or textbooks will only get you so far.

But if I've got my ears, why do I need the scope? Well...your ears are only going to sort out the basic stuff if you're juggling 15-20 channels, so the scope provides a second visual check. If you see a problem, go back to that timestamp and fix it. Simple.

Do yourself a favour and thet a Mordax Data instead of fiddling with some external thing, adapters, settings...
BEst purchase i have ever done, thinking about a second.

Do yourself a favour and thet a Mordax Data instead of fiddling with some external thing, adapters, settings...
-- znort101

That's a good call out. I was vaguely aware of this module's existence, but it wasn't really on my radar. Based on my previous comment, I'm in the target audience of this module. I can see myself getting use out of a quad scope (like looking at I/O from a logic module), and waveform generators and clock dividers are always useful. It's going on my wishlist!

Mordax plus 1, Best Buy of this year

Love my Mordax Data and the developer responds to questions. I want another one for my other case.

Check this out: https://www.musicradar.com/news/korg-nts-2-oscilloscope

Check this out: https://www.musicradar.com/news/korg-nts-2-oscilloscope

-- farkas

Awesome! That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping existed when I started this thread. I'm keeping an eye on that one! The Mordax Data still sounds like a great option but it's a bit of a commitment at 16HP.

Check this out: https://www.musicradar.com/news/korg-nts-2-oscilloscope

-- farkas

Very, very odd. Typical Volca users won't get much out of this, so it's confusing as to why the NT-1's followup is an o-scope. Not saying it's not useful, mind you...just odd.

Could it possibly be...a LIMITED EDITION from Korg? Only 100,000 units made! Comes in its own road case made from recycled Pringle's cans! Secret product leaks from Yanni!

Frankly, if Korg wanted to put out something useful that fits in with their other patchable gear (which actually doesn't fit in with anything, anyway...the MS-20(mini) uses linear CV scaling and negative gate/triggers akin to Moog's S-Trigger on their modules), they might consider a little box that contains all of the stuff they left off of the 2600M. You know...the stuff that Uli knew to leave IN the synth that was in the 3620 keyboard that...well...2600M users don't get.

that new little korg one???

that new little korg one???
-- trigmusicnz

yeah, I am waiting for mine :)

Are products such as this suitable as an external oscilloscope for a eurorack system?

Hantek 2C42 Handheld Oscilloscope Multimeter 2 in 1 Multifunction Tester 2CH+DMM 40MHz Scope: https://www.amazon.com/Hantek-Handheld-Oscilloscope-Multimeter-Multifunction/dp/B07PWZV4XJ

Absolutely, yes. O'scopes can handle a couple of hundred volts, depending on the model.

I'm really unclear on if I can run a patch cable directly from one of my modules into this device. I'm also not sure if this oscilloscope works with DC signals. It says the multimeter is DC, but nothing about the oscilloscope.

Because it's assumed that you know that the scope handles both DC and AC.

Tangentially: I have no multimeter and I'm thinking that would be useful for testing hardware for issues, recalibrations, and building DIY modules. But I see I can get a dedicated multimeter for a tenth the price.

And you're absolutely right...a multimeter IS more important than an oscilloscope. The only practical uses I see for a scope is for checking waveform purity, working on a module, and hunting noise in signals, plus they're quite indispensable for checking phasing when mixing. But a multimeter works on so much more that's germaine to electronic music...from troubleshooting the latest eBay find to precise CV settings, especially in harmonic additive methods that require exacting CV manipulation, to finding levels from experimental devices (like test gear!) that are appropriate for synth CVs or audio signals. Over on Hainbach's subreddit, one constantly-repeated point is that you NEED a multimeter if you're doing hardware-based electronic music. And that ain't no joke!

-- adamj