Matriarch (Ambient) Friend

Hey guys/modular world,

I'm new here so go easy on me please? But also as critical as possible to help me out? ;)

I have a Matriarch which I'm in love with! My intention has always been to develop it further through eurorack and I think I'm ready

As I know is needed, I have an idea what I want to do with it, and as more of an ambient styled creator I simply want a small rig primarily focused on extra modulation capabilties more so than voices which I'm happy (at least for now) are covered by the Matriarch, and FX which I have covered with external pedals (H9 x2)...

In terms of the case type/size, that isn't something I am looking to change, so only swaps if there's something you'd change?

Take a look, and with my goals in mind, praise/criticise/suggest changes etc all as nicely as possible... Please?

If you have any ideas how this rig may interact well with he Matriarch as well and you care to share your two cents, feel free, I'd love to get input!

I appreciate your "I'm married to the case statement" - but seriously get a divorce and get a mantis - much better value. in the long term and easily portable unless you are a small child and the 'included' modules don't really save any money and tie you into buying 1u modules to use them

BUT

how are you planning on sequencing v/oct for rings/uBurst? I think you may need the 1u midi module - the case provides only the usb or din via trrs inputs - NOT the cv/gate that you need to sequence a modular

you probably want to get the 1u line out module - so you can use the case outputs

I don't see the need for steppy at all - it seems completely irrelevant - there is nothing here that begs to be trigger sequenced

I would dump 2 of - pams, batumi and sloths - probably keep batumi and add a 1u sloth - maybe swap batumi for zadar? - you simply have too much modulation in too small a rack with not enough to actually modulate!!!

I would get rid of both of the vcas and the stereo line in - and replace with a good quad cascading vca - veils or intellijel - they are pretty much the only ones that amplify and will function perfectly as line ins (appropriate cable required)

I would add kinks - incredibly useful set of tools in a small space

this may leave you enough space to add a stereo mixer and maybe a second filter

I appreciate your "I'm married to the case statement" - but seriously get a divorce and get a mantis - much better value. in the long term and easily portable unless you are a small child and the 'included' modules don't really save any money and tie you into buying 1u modules to use them

BUT

how are you planning on sequencing v/oct for rings/uBurst? I think you may need the 1u midi module - the case provides only the usb or din via trrs inputs - NOT the cv/gate that you need to sequence a modular

you probably want to get the 1u line out module - so you can use the case outputs

I don't see the need for steppy at all - it seems completely irrelevant - there is nothing here that begs to be trigger sequenced

I would dump 2 of - pams, batumi and sloths - probably keep batumi and add a 1u sloth - maybe swap batumi for zadar? - you simply have too much modulation in too small a rack with not enough to actually modulate!!!

I would get rid of both of the vcas and the stereo line in - and replace with a good quad cascading vca - veils or intellijel - they are pretty much the only ones that amplify and will function perfectly as line ins (appropriate cable required)

I would add kinks - incredibly useful set of tools in a small space

this may leave you enough space to add a stereo mixer and maybe a second filter

-- JimHowell1970

Thanks a lot for the feedback and suggestion, it's exactly what I need!

In regards to the case, in reality it is something I'm not completely married to, I guess it's the minimal size which is more the point - I'm not looking to expand and expand so alternative small cases like you mention are welcome :)

As I say, I am new to eurorack and seems I have mistaken the interaction between it and the matriarch? My initial thoughts were to clock from the matriarch to pams and use the eurorack modulation to affect the matriarchs features, using the cases trs as a line in for other potential sources.

It's ok if I've got it all wrong though lol, that's why I'm here! :)

NP

In regards to the case, in reality it is something I'm not completely married to, I guess it's the minimal size which is more the point - I'm not looking to expand and expand so alternative small cases like you mention are welcome :)

I think it comes down to what you want - there are pros and cons for all case sizes and manufacturers of cases

My view is that even if the goal is a small case (under 6u and under 84hp) - then it is often better to start with a bigger case - most people seem to swap modules quite a bit before they settle on what they need - as this process will be significantly easier with a slightly larger case

the price differential - not taking into account the preinstalled 1/2u row - which I see as worth maybe 50 - is negligible - and they kind of tie you into buying extra modules to get a lot of those components to work

but - matriarch is already eurorack audio level and you are predominantly going to use cv/gate not midi - so you don't really need either of these - the other 1u modules, there are similarly priced alternatives in 3u

if you feel that a big hole in a case will inspire GAS then get/make some blank panels (this is a good idea anyway)

go slowly buy an interesting modulation source - Maths is really popular for a reason ("maths illustrated manual" via google) - maybe add a disting (mk4/ex) as a versatile module, maybe a quad cascading vca (veils would be my 1st choice then intellijel) and an interesting effect and start patching it with the matriarch

you don't mention how you are listening to your matriarch - via a mixer?

As I say, I am new to eurorack and seems I have mistaken the interaction between it and the matriarch? My initial thoughts were to clock from the matriarch to pams and use the eurorack modulation to affect the matriarchs features, using the cases trs as a line in for other potential sources.
It's ok if I've got it all wrong though lol, that's why I'm here! :)

Great attitude!!!!

Yes, that's a very good point with the case, I had thought about how they draw you in with the fitted stuff, and likewise I agree that something as simple as a metal plate to fill a gap can keep your wallet happy lol.

You mention about predominantly using cv/gate and not midi, can I ask for curiosity sake when would the use of midi be required as opposed to cv/gate?

As is clear, Maths is an extremely useful module, I probably need to dig into it a bit more to understand it's full capability (if that is ever possible :P) so I'll look more into that. Thanks for all the other tips, it is really about establishing that starting point and building from there, and it's just those starting points that I need the ideas/suggestions for.

In regards to listening to the Matriarch, my current setup is directly from the main outputs into a Saffire pro 40 interface. This shouldn't be affected by the use of Eurorack as long as I patch everything back into the Matriarch mixer right?

Thanks again, already helping me get to grips more bit by bit!

You mention about predominantly using cv/gate and not midi, can I ask for curiosity sake when would the use of midi be required as opposed to cv/gate?

a lot of people use midi to sequence (mostly from computers or - and maybe you could from the matriarch, but not much piint as you can use cv/gate from the matriarch - if you are not going to use midi then in buying the palette you already paid for 1/2 a midi converter - buying a mantis you pay nothing for midi converter unless you want/need one

In regards to listening to the Matriarch, my current setup is directly from the main outputs into a Saffire pro 40 interface. This shouldn't be affected by the use of Eurorack as long as I patch everything back into the Matriarch mixer right?

you can patch straight from the rack into the interface - no need to go via the matriarch unless you want to - just make sure your gain staging is ok - possibly attenuate signals from the rack (some passive attenuators will do the job)

I've been planning out a matriarch expander for some time! I bought the small intellijel case too, mostly hoping to add utilities and a few envelopes. Just dug up this forum after I came up with what I think my final skiff will look like, and it seems like we have similar ideas on what to include!

Here's what I have now:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1694848.jpg

And here's what I'm thinking the final skiff will look like:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1772099.jpg

Maths is awesome, I use it for slew, pitch envelopes, and extra attenuverters all the time. Massive upgrade for the matriarch on it's own.

I'm hoping to use Pams, The EG's, and LPG's to generate some tempo sync'd goodness while leaving one voice to play around with on the keyboard. The Ladik ADSR's are listed as 45mm deep, and my case is listed at 45.5mm, so hopefully things end up fitting. Twin CV controllable envelopes will be fun for stereo drone patches.

Bi-Fold hopefully will add a bunch more timbers to Matriarch's base sound, seems like a no brainer.

Sloths also seems like an awesome modulation source to add, I've been trying to sum triangle waves and noise to get interesting swells but the sloths seems to do this better.

Couple questions:
Do you use your disting often? I know its very flexible but I am hesitant to incorporate menus and do no need see a great need for effects. If you think it's a lot to learn I may stay away from it.

Are you liking the sloths? The Pams and matriarch both have a lot of modulation generation capabilities, but it seems like the sloths has something unique and worth the HP even in the tiny case.

If you have any opinion on what you would include vs not I'd appreciate the input!

My first consideration would be ergonomics. Where will the case physically live in relation to the Matriarch? You will be patching between the two quite a bit. So I would get that worked out. It also needs to be secure. That's a lot of money in delicate electronics hitting the floor if it falls. Have a plan.

I would start with a Pam's New Workout (8HP), Disting EX (8HP), and an Ornament & Crime micro (8HP). Between those three modules you should have an excellent playground of possibilities to add to the Matriarch. They are also offer a great sampling of features you may (or may not) want to add to your system as dedicated modules like quantizers, additional LFOs, sequencers, etc. Apart from the case, you're looking way under a $1000US for all three modules and only 24HP of room.

That's how I would start exploring as an adjunct to my main axe.

Hmmm...a modulation-only skiff? That's actually quite doable, and it's exactly what we're talking about when we mention "mission-specific" builds. Vide:

TILES: I went with a Temps Utile with the four-input CV control expander as your master clock + random sequencing weirdness source. Then there's a quantizer, as the T_u can output CV over output 4. The QuadrATT is next, then a tile version of Mutable's Peaks.

3U: Just wait for it...it IS the ultimate in random signal generation and manipulation, a total gamechanger when it came out in the 1970s...and that's the Buchla Source of Uncertainty. It'll hit the market in a few months (I'm betting it'll be post-NAMM) and is 100% worth the wait. Then there's a quad LFO for four free-running sources. Maths follows, then a Tiptop MISO for tampering (a lot!) with modulation signals. This is paired with a Zlob Vnicvrsal VCA, which gives you six "breakout-able" linear VCAs along with the capability of mixing VCA outputs. The 4ms PEG is for generating VERY long-period modulation curves of up to 30 minutes from start of rise to end of fall, all under CV control or with lengths set by "pinging" the module by either a clocked signal OR manual tap-buttons. And last, for more conventional envelopes, there's the Quadrax plus the Qx expander, which gives you EOR and EOF signals that can be routed all over the place, or used with the Quadrax to generate "cascading" modulation curves.

As for mounting this somewhere accessible, I'd suggest grabbing one of these: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GFWMUS0500--gator-frameworks-gfw-mus-0500-lightweight-sheet-music-stand. Put this stand behind the Matriarch, put the Palette on it at a desirable angle, then you'll have excellent access to it AND the Matriarch while playing. The stand's even fully foldable for gigs.

The overall build is a good bit more than $1k...but it's a great deal more capable than a Palette 62 could possibly house!