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I am presently deciding whether or not to start a modular setup with a Pittsburgh Modular EP-270 case. I already have an Arturia Keystep Pro for sequencing drums and synths. In addition, I own two Pittsburgh Modular Lifeform SV-1 blackboxes, and will install the contained synth modules.
Overall, this modular setup will be used for minimal Detroit Techno, and based on the concept of two synths, 8 drum drum voices, and basic effects. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
For the style of music you are interested in, I would HIGHLY recommend getting the Behringer RD8 (or maybe waiting for the RD9) for your drum voices. I have both the Blck_Noir and the RD8, and the Blck_Noir has a gritty character that is more in line with late 70s/early 80s post-punk than techno. I'm a big fan of that whole Detroit scene, and the RD8 has Drexciya written all over it (much cheaper and more fun too!). They're both cool, but I've mentioned in this forum before that I never feel like I get exactly what I want out of the Blck_Noir. The RD8 also has a few trigger outs and a clock input so you can integrate it well with your modular.
Just my two cents after a quick glance at your rack. I'll take a closer look after the holidays.
Have fun and good luck!
First of all, DON'T decase the Pitt Lifeforms synths and put them in here. All you'll really accomplish is making them more expensive to REhouse and REpower, and losing space for actual modules that need those things. Here's how the math works on that...
EP-270 = $649. $649 / 270 = $2.40. Each 1 hp space in the cab breaks down to that.
Lifeforms SV-1 = $649 x 2 = $1298. This is the street for both SV-1s together.
The SV-1 occupies 48 hp. 48 x 2 = 96 hp.
96 x $2.40 = $230.40. So in the end, recasing these runs their price up to $764.20 EACH. Double that for both = $1528.40.
If you didn't pay $1528 and change for them in the first place, why do it now? Leave them where they belong.
Now, as for the module complement itself...some of what's in here is needlessly expensive. Why, for example, would you use the Grp ADSR (at $167) when the same basic thing can be had for TWO for $151 with the Doepfer A-140-2? It just needs 2 more hp, which should be easy enough to acquire once the Pitt SV-1s are back where they go. Or the ALM Tangle Quartets...8 VCAs for $398 in 16 hp...and an Erogenous Tones VC8 gives you eight in 18 hp, with 2 breakable mixer paths, for $319? And so on...what you might want to do is to go back and see if you can bring the cost on this DOWN; once the Pitts are out, you have expansion space to work with. That also means that whatever you can save over what devices are here already can then go into adding MORE functionality in the newly-opened space.
Also, farkas makes a very good point, in that it makes much more sense from a functional standpoint to NOT have the drums in here. For one thing, that's a lot of tangle going back and forth between the KSP...and lots of interconnection just means more potential for something going wrong. His suggestion is very good...so if you can snag a Blck_noir for $599, you can just as easily snag an RD-8 for $398 and have $$$ left to pair it up with an RD-6 for $179, and you come out $22 AHEAD. Just on the money aspect alone, this makes more sense...to say nothing of having the PROPER working paradigm for Tha D (although, in truth, waiting for an RD-9 makes more sense as that was more like what was really used much of the time: the Roland TR-909). But not having the 606 hats and such (and the RD-6 just happens to also have the Boss DR110 clap, too) means you're missing part of the percussion palette for that style. AND you get two channels of trigger sequencing with it, to boot.
Of course, if you wanted to go with the REAL Detroit working model, you wouldn't buy ANY of this...and instead, go poke around pawn shops and the like. That's what Juan, Derrick and Kevin did...and they launched an entirely new musical movement using those "junk store" instruments. You could say the same for people like Larry Heard in Chi, too. Might not be so easy to pawn shop dive these days, but there's always eBay and Reverb. A good example of how this worked can be heard on some of Derrick May's tracks like "Nude Photo"...where a lot of the "analog bass" is actually coming from...
+1 to all of the above.
Can't remember where I stumbled across this video. It may have been posted here before. It really brings home the importance of playing the X0X style sequencer as its own instrument for this style of music. The RD8 has three trigger outs if you want to add some TipTop 909 modules for that flavor. Enjoy, and happy holidays to all!
Happy holidays and thank you for the detailed feedback, Farkas and Lugia!
I will definitely think things over, and make some modifications. One of my goals of moving to a modular setup was to have most items contained in the eurorack case, whether its the EP-270 or a larger option. However, that was probably not possibly in the long term, as I would eventually like to incorporate my Roland SYSTEM-1m and Arturia MiniBrute 2 into the setup as well. With that said, I will definitely consider keeping the drums and synths out of the rack.
I must admit that the EP-270 is smaller than I had anticipated once I started adding modules. I will more than likely move up to the EP-420, and fill it in over time.
In regards to the Blck_Noir vs. RD-8, I actually owned an RD-8 and sold it, due to having the 808 sounds covered with the Roland TR-8S and, via samples, Pioneer DJ SP-16. The Blck_Noir was selected to obtain sounds different than the typical 808 and 909, or any other drum machine option I have available in my studio.
I will post an update over the coming days.
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My 2 cents here:
Wait for the Endorphin.es Ground Control sequencer to arrive next year and pair it with Endorphin.es Queen of Pentacles. That would get you pretty close to Detroit techno vibes in small setup. Maybe add an Erica Synths bassline and you are good to go.
In regards to the Blck_Noir vs. RD-8, I actually owned an RD-8 and sold it, due to having the 808 sounds covered with the Roland TR-8S and, via samples, Pioneer DJ SP-16. The Blck_Noir was selected to obtain sounds different than the typical 808 and 909, or any other drum machine option I have available in my studio.
-- ReverseShuffle
OK, if you have the TR8S, you have the X0X sequencing and 808/909 sounds covered. The Queen of Pentacles sounds are covered by the TR8S too, so I'd probably bypass that one. The Blck_Noir is definitely a unique sounding drum machine. It might be good to supplement your other drum machines, but I'm wondering if you couldn't just use CR78 samples to get the same flavor. For me, the Blck_Noir has very limited potential for a certain style and era of music (the post-punk style that I happen to love and experiment with often). I find the effects section fiddly too, and rarely use the added effects/filter.
Just wanted to give you a user's point of view. BN is a cool sound, but is it $500+ cool? That's up to you.
You may want to consider the WMD drum modules (Crucible, Crater, Fracture, Chimera) for a more versatile and CV-controllable set of drum sounds.
Wait for the Endorphin.es Ground Control sequencer to arrive next year and pair it with Endorphin.es Queen of Pentacles. That would get you pretty close to Detroit techno vibes in small setup. Maybe add an Erica Synths bassline and you are good to go.
-- sacguy71
Actually, the addition of the EP-420 makes a lot of sense. The form factors of both cases are pretty much a dead match, which means you can implement the 270 as a sidecar...sort of like the ARP 2500 "wing" concept. An interesting idea might be to designate the current 270 as your "control" cab with sequencing and timing, plus MIDI, have the main synthesis in the 420, then add a second 270 for processing and mixing. Plunk the KSP right down in front of the 420, and there you are.
Naturally, this would be "long term" stuff...but it's not a bad idea to explore those ideas NOW so that you'd have a clear idea of how an expanded variation would work.
Thank you again everyone for the feedback. It is truly appreciated.
Big changes has been made! After much thought, additional research, and budget considerations, the eurorack case has officially been upgraded from the Pittsburgh Structure EP-270 to the EP-420. Below is the present goal to fill in the said eurorack case:
Feedback is definitely welcomed.
Although I want nothing more than to purchase everything now, I will probably only invest up to $5.0k to 6.5k initially to get started, and confirm or modify the remainder of the purchasing decisions over the next year. The modular system will be triggered via an Arturia Keystep Pro (and two additional Beatstep Pros and two Keysteps, if needed), and passed through an external mixing board for additional processing. However, I plan to eventually consider a separate eurorack case with specialized sequencers and mixers later.
My final goal is to have a self contained 4-voice and 8-drum modular groovebox. I am also considering an Elektron Analog Four MKII and Elektron Analog Rytm MKII combo as an alternative to the proposed modular system. Although far more expensive and less convenient, as an electrical engineer and musician, a modular system has truly captured my interest for quite some time, and I do not want to regret not diving in 100% to verify whether or not it inspires and assists me to achieve my music creative goals.
In addition, I also have a Roland System-1m, Arturia MiniBrute 2, and two Pittsburgh Modular Lifeforms SV-1s available for additional modular synth devices to integrate in the future. Also,the Roland TR-8S, Pioneer DJ SP-16, and Arturia DrumBrute can also be used for more drum sources later on as well.
I made the above build make more sense. Vide:
I tossed the majority of the adders and buffered mults as being superfluous. However, note the arrangement at the top left...in this case, the adder and buffered mults are PAIRED here so that you can use two separate CV channels (you'll see why in a bit) and have transposition control over each separately.
Now...why two channels? Here's why...I split out the "voice" into two discrete voice "zones". On the left end, you've got your stereo VCOs grouped together, then this feeds to a Hyrlo, set up for three stereo inputs to one stereo out. Then there's a Morgasmatron next to this (I tossed a lot of the excess filters, also...this and the other two are placed to be used by the separate "voices") for the stereo filtering. This would then output stereo to a pair of strips on the Performance Mixer. Then, right after that, are the monophonic VCOs, and a dual VCA/mixer (1/2 of a Veils, actually) is right by those for summing. OR you can use the inputs on the Fold Processor for summing, OR you can send the individual VCA outs to the Fold Processor and have IT serve as the VCO summer...plus the source for sub-octave bass! After that, I kept the Tiptop Steiner-Parker clone for even more post-sum processing then the A-106-1 is intended as a final VCF pair for THAT voice. You'd send that from there down to...again...the Performance Mixer. By doing this, you now have a split between a "pad" voice and a "lead/bass" voice, with the outputs of both going right to the level VCAs in the Performance Mixer.
Your drums are now on the next row down, next to the Konstant Labs PWRchecker which lets you keep an eye on your DC rail performance. The thing next to the BlckNoir isn't a mult...it's actually a fixed-pan stereo mixer (the white-ringed points are the L and R outs) that lets you sum that module down to stereo. After that, the SampleDrum...then a 2xSAM handles the stereo summing of all of that. Its output would go to...yep...two more strips on the Performance Mixer. All of the modulation sources are next...I added the expanders to the Batumi, Zadar, and Quadrax for even more flexibility and interaction between the mod sources, plus a Tenderfoot 3-in attenuverting mixer in the middle for polarization and modulation summing. Each attenuverter can be broken out of that, also.
Bottom row got beefed up quite a bit. Everything from the Pam's to the quantizer are co-located so that you can screw with timing more easily. Plus, there's another adder next to the quantizer so that you can add its output with another CV...and of course, that meant putting the OAx2 by it for a good DC offset source + an extra attenuator. The MISO logically fits next to this, and allows you to manipulate your mod signals globally. But where there should be VCAs...well, there is, but by using the VC8, you get much better functionality AND save about $80 over a pair of the Tangles. These are your linear VCAs for CV/mod manipulation...as the final audio VCAs are actually in...here it is again...the Performance Mixer. Your effects are next...and again, the goal here was to up the capability AND fit the space, so I went with a MSCL stereo compressor for mashing the stereo drum feed (makes it bang HARDER), a Statis Leak (reverb, tap delay, chorus in mono-to-stereo) and the Echoz. After that...yep, there it is...the PERFORMANCE MIXER. This has your final audio VCAs, plus it has a mono FX send and stereo return and a bunch of other tricks that makes this WAY easier to use. Then I followed that with a FX Aid XL which you can either feed the stereo mix through and control the wet-dry mix...OR you can use the second stereo input on the Happy Nerding OUT as a second stereo return, which is pretty convenient! This also has your headphone preamp, main output metering, and transformer isolation which you can oversaturate a bit for some extra warmth.
I got rid of ALL of the small 2 and 3 hp mixers, all but two of the adders, all but one of the buffered mults (which is now where it needs to be...the rest made no sense, and instead of those expensive things, just use passive in-line mult widgets), and a bunch of other things that just didn't fit together nicely with each other. And that last point is key here: the subsystems in here are now PROPERLY grouped and outfitted with their various support modules for ease of use and better internal routings. And I put it in a wood cab like the Pitt 420 so you can get a better idea of the final looks. Result: much tighter configuration, better ergonomics overall, plus much more "readable" where the subsystem patching is concerned instead of having subsystem modules scattered all over the place. And the addition of that WMD Performance Mixer is not only designed to streamline workflow, it ALSO has enough remaining inputs to mix in any "wing" cabs you might get in the future, or you can also send the SV-1s to those since their outputs will be at the proper level, letting you directly integrate those into the final mix. Also, if you go to an arrangement of wing cabs, you can shuffle things on the bottom row so that the Performance Mixer can be expanded with two more input strips, direct mutes, and CV over AUX sends on your first four strips. No room for that YET...but it's something to consider if you go to a "next stage" build.
The power draw here IS HIGH...but by putting this in a EP-420, there's loads of Amps to go around. Oh, yeah...the uZeus went away, too, since the EP-420 has those STONKIN' DC supplies already in place!
EDIT: oh...and I saved you about $300 here, even with expensive additions like the...gotta say it one more time...PERFORMANCE MIXER! haw!
I knew some items were out of place, and needed to be rearranged or modified. The shown example definitely helps, and it is copied it to my own account. I plan to purchase the first group of modules tomorrow to consume about 270hp in total of the EP-420's full capacity.
Sure...just click on my version, then use the "copy rack" function at the top to copy it to your account's builds. And yeah, the way this is set up now makes it much easier to build each subsection individually. My suggestion for starting would be to get the top row and the Performance Mixer, plus one or two of the modulation sources and the Tenderfoot attenuverters. From that, you'll start to get a sense of the raw power that I've hidden in this...this build ain't no joke! Rather, it's a "system core" from which you can expand outwards, with ample capabilities for just that.
Sure...just click on my version, then use the "copy rack" function at the top to copy it to your account's builds. And yeah, the way this is set up now makes it much easier to build each subsection individually. My suggestion for starting would be to get the top row and the Performance Mixer, plus one or two of the modulation sources and the Tenderfoot attenuverters. From that, you'll start to get a sense of the raw power that I've hidden in this...this build ain't no joke! Rather, it's a "system core" from which you can expand outwards, with ample capabilities for just that.
-- Lugia
Nice. The performance mixer is definitely a big improvement, and I was strongly considering its addition. The rack is copied over to my account.
I am pretty excited as a modular setup was something I have considered for over 18 months, and will provide me with a specialized setup for Techno music. In addition, I will be able to reclaim a lot of studio space. I presently own close to 30 synths and 10 drum machiness/grooveboxes, but only keep a limited amount setup in the studio. Nevertheless, it still clutters my studio more than I prefer, and it could use some improvements for Techno music. The other genres of music that I create are vocal based, and are generally better suited for in-the-box music production. A eurorack makes a lot of sense for my situation.
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Definitely great suggestions from Lugia as usual and I upgraded to larger mixers in my new setups as well. I just got the Befaco Hexmixer which is fun with the mute switches and can be expanded later on and have a Xaoc Devices Praga on order that can be expanded as well as chained to another Praga mixer for 4-8 channels of cv/audio mixer with aux sends. WMD Performance Mixer is the one to beat and on my list for next year.
After additional iterations, I took the initial advice of using an external drum machine. Therefore, I removed the Blck_Noir and Erica Synth Drum Sampler. I will own Blck_Noir day, but it will unfortunately not included in my first modular system build. I also kept the TipTop effects in the case to prevent or limit the use of an external effect units and pedals. Below are the new modifications:
I plan to run the WMD Performance Mixer's main output to the stereo external inputs of either the Native Instruments Maschine+, Pioneer DJ SP-16, Roland MC-707, or Roland TR-8S. Since I already own all four, at least one of them can provide the drums and, if needed, additional sounds.
The overall setup should be rather compact unlike my present studio setup with multiple individual synths.
Thanks for the help!
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Using an external drum machine is good idea as way less expensive than modular drums. I like the Elektron Rytm and Jomox Alphabase drum machines.
Using an external drum machine is good idea as way less expensive than modular drums. I like the Elektron Rytm and Jomox Alphabase drum machines.
-- sacguy71
Yep, that's what I have come to realize. I might consider drum module options for a future build, but it will be much further down the line. I just need to get started down the modular path, and develop a strong workflow. After I completely fill up the first case with actual purchases, I plan to focus on a dedicated sequencer case with Doepfer A-155 and A-154 modules. The said combo looks extremely interesting for Techno-based music.
Plus, using an external drum machine (or two) is much more "idiomatic" to techno. Even new styles can have "performance practice" aspects, you know...they're not just for Early Music these days.
The ONLY things I would have different in this version is that I'd yank the rightmost buffered mult and adder on row #2 so that you can put the Qx back in for the Quadrax, and the extra 1 hp can go back at either end for one of those Konstant Labs PWRcheckrs. If you need a mult at the right side, just shift the Links over there where the adder/buff pair is currently. Another potential change might be to remove the Kinks in the bottom row, since the one above it makes that redundant...this would then give you 8 more hp, not four...and I can think of something crazy-useful utility-wise that fits in 6: SSF's Tool-Box. Tons of useful circuits hiding in there... Then, as the cherry on the clocking cake here, put the Adventure Audio Count in that leftover 2 hp, which then gives you clockpulse counting, and this can be used with the Plog and others to fire off "conditional" gate pulses for events which need to happen on a specific beat, such as an accented note, etc.
Other than those easy swaps, it's looking like it might be time to dust off the Magic Plastic...
