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Hello from Nobone,
another totally beginner in this huge world of modular. So Im here to get some info from you to make my first steps in this world or better universe. Like many others here Im into drones and dark ambient. Doing it by using the west coast style.
But the first steps are difficult. Must confess to understand this universe is not so easy for me. But today modular grid is there and youtube:-) So here Im with my first ideas and a lot of questions.
For the beginning I just want to sources ...the 352 (or the Honda piston) and morphagene (or clouds?). My fresh thoughts are....triggering/modulating the 352 via Batumi and the Doepfer. And triggering/modulating the morphagene via Maths. The output then from both to the Erbe verb.
And now the problems begin. Erbe verb has a lot of functions. So maybe its to "big" for just being used as a normal reverb because of the many cvs for size etc.. So should the Erbe also be triggered by Math or the batumi? And Im a fan of delays. But the space in the rack. I know....then a bigger rack. But wanted at first to start bit smaller. Useful?
So maybe some of you got some time to get me on the "technical" useful way.
Feel free to comment. By the way Im from Germany so you can answer in german, too. Thanks a lot. Nobone
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_626989.jpg?1522493522

EDITED Mar 31st 2018, 10:53

Yerwelcome! For me, this is working from experience; having been working with different types of electronic instrumentation for about 40 years now, ranging from cobbled-together breadboards and bits up to drool-worthy modular systems, I'm just real used to how these things should work. But there's a few things I routinely do:

1) Cluster the functions. I always try to get the different module functions in the same general areas. That way, you know where the thing you're looking for in general is going to be, and you can move around and patch very rapidly once the layout's learned...which, again, this clustering makes easy.

2) Follow a model that works. As a rule, my overall layouts follow a distinct order of function placement, which is actually based on a still-coveted classic that I've used off and on since 1980: the ARP 2600. When you get a chance, have a look at one, then compare this build to that. The ARP 2600 is such a desirable synth because not only does it sound great, it has an easily-navigable layout. You know where the VCOs are (upper left), the filter is (dead-center), and the VCA and reverb is (right end), with various modifying things on the lower tier of submodules. I recall a quote in Mark Vail's 'Vintage Synthesizers' book: "It's the only synth I can play when I'm drunk."...and there's very good reasons for that! Also, I find it a bit telling that two companies that built huge modular systems (namely, Moog and ARP) first then wound up going with much the same layout in their first portables (Minimoog and 2600, respectively): VCO->VCF->VCA, left to right, and control placed convenient to all of these.

3) Build to scale. These days, it's possible to get teensy modules with massive functions, and they're great when you're building in a tight space. On the other hand, if you're doing a big studio rig, go big with the modules. But make sure your form factors always fit the cab they're being chosen for. You want as much function as you can jam into the space you've specced out.

It also helps, probably, that ambient is what I've concentrated on musically in one way or another since the early 1980s. So I have a good idea of what'll function properly for that, and can choose accordingly.

As for the mixers in the tile row: yep, you got it. The Mix-A is DC-coupled, and a linear DC-coupled VCA is next to it. But the Mix-B is AC-coupled, and needed an exponential, AC-coupled VCA for its audio-only path. But that being said, you can easily use the two different VCAs as percussive amplitude control for differently-weighted noise types off of that Zlob module, with the linear one giving you a softer transient response and the exponential being perfect for hard, fast 'snaps'. And then, you just play the FSR's like teensy-weensy bongos!

Tinkered with it a little:

The original had pretty much everything necessary, mission-wise, but there were a few issues, which I tried to clear up here. The layout was...confusing. Made my head hurt. Everything was all over the place and it looked downright confusing as to signal paths, patch flow, etc, so I reordered everything with a few things getting changed in the course. All of the synth voicing is on top now (with the needed buffered mult), then the next row has the modulation sources and playable effects, plus a stereo 6-channel VCA mixer, giving you ten total VCAs. Note also that I kinda 'shrunk' the Linix into a Doepfer A-132-2, which does much the same thing but which saved a good chunk of space. The mult got changed, too; this SSSR passive can be switched between 2x4 and 1x8, which is actually a handy function if you're doing a lot of sequencing and bouncing around a lot of modulation for which you need a 1x8, but can be changed back to a more typical 2x4 with a switch-flip instead of losing a pair of mult points when you need the whole thing on one signal. Also, the Clouds went away because, unless you've already got one, it's not gettable except either used or as a third-party build, plus there's plenty of playable FX there to go nuts with already.

Sequencing and drums on the bottom, clustered appropriately. The drums now also have a submixer, which can be inputted to the second stereo in on the HN output module. And the power supplies are now contiguous, to allow an easy jumper from the lower to the upper. Definitely makes more sense now; you can easily see how the patch flow should work, which is a real plus if you're going to gig out with this build. Buttloads of VCAs now, too...aside of the onboards on the Atlantis and M303, the system now has ten, with four being purely for CVs under a tandemmed CV control (like the Linix) and six more on the stereo mixer for audio. Makes this a doable build for both studio AND live now!

EDITED Mar 30th 2018, 23:29

Had a great transaction for a Rainmaker with @yufo
Very communicative, very nicely packaged/shipped. This was my first transaction through MG, and I was hesitant, but I couldn't have asked for better.

WUT!? This is enormously helpful! I'm going to need a while to digest all of this, but the possibilities you've suggested are really exciting. That the model D and Digitakt are so easily incorporated into this rig makes it extra exciting. I'm far from being in a position to purchase all of these modules at once, but I like the idea of getting a single Plaits and A111-3, power supply, usb-midi interface, etc--basically everything for a single voice--and then slowly building it up from there. The Pulp Logic tiles are reasonably priced, too, so incorporating them shouldn't be too bad I forgot to mention earlier, but the case I picked up also included a Mix A and a Mix B (which, I gather, is for mixing audio and CV respectively?)

I also like the incorporation of the Bautumi. I've been eyeing it for a while and I think the long, slowly-morphing sounds that I've got in mind will more easily come to life with a quad LFO. The demos online are really inspiring. Videos for the Disting are also pretty exciting. Tons of functionality in a very small space, for sure.

Lugia, for real, I've spent so many hours watching videos and trying to assemble a rig on my own, but your thoughtful comments have seriously helped to steer me in the right direction. Big thanks again!

Yuppers...ALL rails need to be inside whatever safety window you choose, not just the +12 or whatever. The triple-output supplies used in Eurorack aren't capable of pulling the 'extra' from another rail that's not being used. Treat a Eurorack supply as three discrete supplies, and it makes more sense. In fact, some large-scale builders will actually use just that: three separate supplies dedicated to each rail, each one massively overspecced for the current draws found in really large systems.

OK, back to modules...we've got 7U x 84 to play with here, and the Magneto and Lo-Fi are 'givens'. Lemme screw around with this for a hot minute...

Easy-peasy. Now, this thing is set up for two discrete voices, both with the same general signal chain: Plaits + Doepfer A-111-3, so two VCOs per voice. The Quad VCA allows you to mix/amplitude control them by splitting the module by outputting from Out 2 and Out 4. Waveshaper and ring mod after that, then two Ripples to match the VCO compliment with identical VCFs. Then we have a 3xVCA and a 3xMIA for various expanded mixing/control methods. The 3xMIA also can serve as an inverter, offset source, and so on.

Next row. I put in the FH-1 I'd mentioned before as a USB host module for the Digitakt, but it can also work with other devices needing a USB host, or a computer with an adapter that allows that to connect to the FH-1. Also from Expert Sleepers is the Disting mk4, a fantastic Swiss Army Knife device, great in a small build for multifunctions. The little blue thing is a Zlob module that contains a noise source as well as the always-useful sample and hold. Then modulation sources: Batumi (4 LFOs in 10 hp) and a Quadra (4 AD or AR envelopes with looping). You know the next two, of course, and then a Mixup for a stereo out (to make proper use of the Magneto's stereo capabilities). And, oh yeah...the Row Power 40, which gives you 300 mA of extra current headroom on the +12v rail and 250 mA on the -12. A little tight for my tastes, but quite within m1sterlurk's suggested current tolerances.

The tile row is where I got artful, tho...first up is an insert module, like I'd talked about above for putting a stompbox into the signal chain, but it can also be used as an external preamp for outside signals. Then there's the neat stuff. You'll note the mixer tiles, first up...CV on left, audio on right. Now, beside those I placed the appropriate VCA, then FSRs, and last, an AR envelope.

How that works is that it gives you a force-sensor-controlled VCA for a group of summed control voltages on the left, and for the same in audio signals on the right. BUT WAIT! There's MORE...since the FSRs also output a gate, I added the AR envelopes so that you can also trigger those from the FSR's gate to send elsewhere...or even to the VCAs along with the FSRs, since the VCA tiles have dual CV inputs. This gives you an interesting control option that wasn't there before, but there was very much a hint at in the original build, and it also provides a tactile percussion interface, since you can also use the FSR/VCA/AR combo with a very short envelope and some noise, etc to tap out little noise-burst percussion bits.

And of course, your stereo output tile pair closes it out. Lots of possible patch-in for the Model-D here, plays nice with the Digitakt, and loads of sound potential in an itsy-bitsy cab. Works?

EDITED Mar 30th 2018, 22:15

hey man, how are you? i am trying to re upload the Shift Line Force, would you mind deleting it so i can update the current size? Thanks!

sequencers are octatrack to hermod, beatstep pro for drums and Dr.660, varigate 8 for whatever type stuff, maybe a digitak and or second octatrack for sampling modular and for other midi controlled devices.

Remember that your system as currently configured is also over the 80% safe zone on the -12V rail, though if you were to swap out the uZeus with a 4ms Row Power 40 you'd be well in the safe zone.

Also I had to have fun with the spam poster...I really can't help myself.

whoa, that spam post got weird really fast...

First, enormous thanks, Lugia, for the thoughtful response. I agree that using the Model D on its own would be the best bet. Unfortunately (but also kinda fortunately), I was lucky enough to pick up some pieces to start assembling my set up, and they were the ones you recommended I rethink. So far I've got the synthrotek case, a lo-fi, and a magneto. I've got a microbrute that will allow me to use the effects, but I'd like to expand the rack to contain full synth voices and effects that I can control via a midi sequencer. Eventually, my goal is to expand into something capable of more complex and generative patches. Thanks, too, to m1sterlurk, for the input on the power supply. I think keeping the Model D on it's own will allow me to stay in the safe zone of 80% consumption.

@EmilAxing
You can search in your collection like in the ModularGrid database. If you reset the search form, you should see all modules you have added.
You can also add all modules in a rack automatically with the Edit-> Add all to my modules drop down.

I just purchased Unicorn to have my collection there but it seems only one module from my collection is visible there?

Pretty sucky to flesh out €20 for one function that doesn't work. Is the fault on my end?

Well, we've just about reached the end of March and I'm killing time waiting for Ableton to get done munching on a huge multitrack set. Soooo...you know what it's time for: KICK ASS! March 2018 edition, in which I round up the best of the promising new modules on ModularGrid. So let's jump right into the fray, shall we?

1) Schlappi Engineering Interstellar Radio. The name's a little misleading; for those of you expecting something like the Radio Music or Evaton's shortwave receiver...nope, this ain't that. What it is, though, is this hideous, sound-ruining monstrosity that should be a must-have for anyone doing harsh noise, power electronics, old-school industrial, glitch or no-fi, and anything else musically harmful along those lines! I saw all of the demos of this, and it is apparently totally incapable of behaving nicely. It's 14 hp of sonic HATE...and if you're the sort that loves to attack listeners' hearing and sensibilities, you have GOT TO have one of these. “Merzbow, the home game version” in a module? Spot-frickin-ON! Strap one of these onto a chain of Gristleizer modules, and expect Homeland Security to come knockin' PDQ.

2) Mutable Instruments Plaits. Braids is back...and BETTER! More functions, smaller size, and cheaper to boot. Olivier Gillet has given us what he feels is the 'perfected' version of Mutable's much-loved digital VCO. I'm not disagreeing! A total redesign of the original, adding new operation modes and 100% LFO capability. Not much explaining necessary here; you all know what this is. Give 'em your money NOW!

3) Alchemical Audio Touch Plate Controller. Presumably designed for Moog's Eurorack offerings, this control surface clearly has more possible uses than that. And it has its own 12V input, too, meaning you can use it separately in a specially-designed case. Not a lot of info, either on MG or their Facebook page, but the functionality appears pretty obvious, and for only $150. Yeah, touch controllers on this scale are usually spendy things, but this blows that trend. Knowing the general inventiveness of the Eurorack crowd, I just know that some of you are going to latch onto one of these and take it off in a whole new direction. And it even OUTPUTS MIDI...which, to me, feels like an excuse to bust out Max for Live and build something interesting for it.

4) Aemit EVC Filter. EVC stands for 'Everything Voltage Controlled'. They ain't lyin'! Plus, this is kind of unusual in that it's a 4-pole state-variable; you usually see 2-pole versions of this, so that one detail ups the sonic game. Plus, two of these can be tandem-controlled by Aemit's EVC+ expander, making the possible uses and results even wilder. This demands a second look from anyone looking to get a really new filter sound from their build. A little spendy, perhaps, but I get the impression that you'd be getting what you're paying for here.

5) Klavis Mixwitch. This is a strange one. Is it a mixer? Yes. Is it a signal switch? Yes again. Is it a CV processor? Yup. Is it a randomizer? Yeah, it's that as well. Basically, if you do a lot of tinkering with elaborate modulation schemes, you're going to want one of these puppies. It's another one of those 'Swiss Army Knives', this time for tampering with loads of control applications. Also, those into the generative sequencing thing will find oodles of uses for this, due to its random control signal switching ability. So odd, but so brilliant!

6) Gibbon Digital ALAK. One of the stranger and smaller pattern sequencers I've seen. The ALAK uses geometrical shapes across four tracks, rotating the shapes in a circular pattern on its circular sequencing matrix to get the triggers to fire. Plus, you can alter the shapes on the fly via a phase-change adjustment to skew the geometrically-based behavior. It looks simple enough...but it's got functionality hidden in it in spades! Again, the generative-school folks should have a look into this one!

7) SOMA Synths LYRA-8 FX. OK, stop right here. Go and find a demo video for the LYRA-8. Watch what the effect section does to/for the sound. Amazing, right? The LYRA-8 is one of the very best drone synths around right now, and this module is the 'voodoo' behind it, now for use anywhere in a Eurorack system. If you watched the LYRA-8's videos, I really shouldn't have to explain much more what this module's capable of. Downright amazing...a 'gotta-get' for the drone or ambient crowds, or anyone else who likes the lo-fi delay-warp sound of the LYRA-8.

8) Tinrs Wobbler. Good lord...the tricks this thing has up its sleeve! Calling this just an LFO really doesn't scratch the surface of the modulation mojo this thing's about. There's some modulation models in this that people are going to drool over, such as the 'twang' curves, the double-pendulum mode, and all of the other trickery that it's capable of using to create modulation behavior, some of which would take several modules to pull off otherwise. And it also does random functions, too...and way more. The real shock, though, is that this all fits in only 12 hp! What...the...HELL!? So, basically, if you're designing something small and portable, this might well be THE complex modulation source, but it's got abuse potential in a large rig, too. Another 'you gotta see it to believe it' module, this.

9) 2hp Pluck. OK, we all know that the point of 2hp's stuff is that it fits into...well, 2 hp. But many of their devices work nicely in large-scale builds, too, to add a dash of extra capabilities in a teensy space. This, however, is way beyond anything I'd expect in 2 hp: a Karplus-Strong modeled voice in, yep, 2 hp. Totally amazing, really. Most physical modelers are much larger affairs, but this tiny little thing pulls it off in the absolute minimum (OK, yeah, it's not 1 hp, but what do you seriously expect?) of space and makes exploring this synthesis mode a 'why not?' sort of situation. So...why not?

10) G-Storm Electro DC571. Brilliant! A two-channel, 80s-style compressor in just 8 hp. The modular drum crowd's going to eat these up, I should think, because it's a small-space solution for making drum sounds really pound, adding both some distortion (if you overdrive it) and 'glue' for whatever it's used on to punch the dynamics way up. No pricing yet (they promise 'soon' on that), but even though this is a limited run device (sadly!), I'm gonna bet that it'll be worth the ca$h for those doing live work who need sounds that cut thru the mix, or, again, the drum module userbase.

OK...that's pretty much it for March. Kind of a short list, but that's expected with Superbooth coming up soon. We should see a veritable deluge of mind-boggling stuff in the weeks following that event. Definitely going to be worth the wait to see what pops up if this is what we see in an 'off' month!

great transaction with @saywordsahn

SUPER fast shipping and great communication.

Cheers

The right time I will ever have that won't stop? Gee...I hardly think you could make that work. After all, Robert Fripp has to change the tape reels on his Revoxes eventually, plus he's going to get really tired of playing that Les Paul of his for weeks on end.

Do your russian escorts dress up as bananas and tell fairy tales? I'm totally into that.

Hi, just to reiterate this - looks like the resizing doesn't function exactly as intended (or there's something i'm doing wrong) -

https://www.modulargrid.net/p/pedalboards/view/634641

Here are 2 sets of pedals with similar/the same dimensions that aren't scaled how they should be

EDITED Mar 29th 2018, 14:32

Should still be possible to do a load-in in one shot...look into some cases/bags that'll allow all of the gear to be in one package. In theory, you're still in a size range that would still work as a carry-on, if we're talking a Digitakt, Model D, modular, and a mixer and laptop. The whole mess should more or less fit something in that size, depending on what you find and how creative you get with it. A good friend and colleague of mine gigs with about the same amount of gear (perhaps a little more, actually) and he's still able to fit the whole live rig into a carry-on.

Also, do pay attention to m1sterlurk's notes about the current draw above. That Model D alone draws a full amp on the +12 V rail...and the same span of panel (70 hp), with typical modules, really shouldn't draw much more than a couple hundred mA, at the very worst. Yet another reason for leaving the Model D in its own cab, I think. My rule of thumb says that as long as I can keep the current draw below 2/3rds of the maximum rating for the power supply, I'm pretty much assured that no operational state (such as power-ups, which can sometimes be more than the operating current load for tiny intervals) can jump beyond the supply's rated capacity.

Clocking...hm...there's several ways to do that. First method would be what you'd suspected: using the MIDI interface's clock out and clocking everything off of either a laptop or the Digitakt. Annoying that the Digitakt doesn't have a dedicated clock out, tho. Method #2 would be to clock everything from something a little...different. Have a look at Expert Sleepers' FH-1. Now, that would allow hosting of the Digitakt directly to/from the modular, and it can do the same thing for anything else that requires a MIDI host. It's much more complex than a regular MIDI interface as well, allowing a lot of user-definable functions to be implemented along with the MIDI conversion. DO, however, power the Digitakt via its own adapter; while the FH-1 can technically supply power via USB, you don't want to be right back in the same mess as having the Model-D in there with respect to current draw.

As for the tiles: good move. There's a lot of stuff in 1U out there from several makers that won't/can't fit in an Intellijel case, and sticking with the 'normal' tile format seems wiser. And yes, that includes a nice audio interface from Pulplogic, plus gobs of other toys.

Now for the modules themselves. I advise you to think small. ANYTHING that can be reduced in size should be if we're talking about a small travelling rig like this. Take stock of the functions you already have there (excepting the Model D, of course) and see just how small you can go with the same/similar/better functions. Take the Magneto, for example. Awesome delay. Frickin' huge, though...great for a large-scale rig, a real space-hog in this. But...consider what you'd get if you used a Chronoblob, and then used that delay's insert point to drop a few little 2hp processors into the delay feedback circuit. Quite entertaining...and smaller, too. Or the Quad VCA, which is good, but the 1U tile row lets you add a couple more VCAs, potentially for controlling mixer output dynamics, ergo no need for a second one (and VCAs for CVs can be very useful things! consider mixing a bunch of CVs, then controlling their summed level via a VCA at the Mix-A's output...nuts!).

Last thing: effects in a modular that can also be done by a stompbox should probably be done with a stompbox to save space. But this doesn't mean you have to be conventional about that, either. F'rinstance...the Zvex module could be replaced with two other I/O modules for send/return work to outboard FX boxes, one of which could be the selfsame box, or even a better/crazier lo-fi looper. And by replacing that with typical I/Os, which tend to be 4 hp, you get back 2 hp to use for something else (like half of yet another FX I/O, maybe?). And given that stompboxes are small things, they're easily jammed into the aforementioned gig bag with everything else.

Anyway, that should give you a bit to think about for a hot minute or two...

The uZeus supplies 2000mA on the 12V rail and 500mA on the -12V rail, and your system pulls 1735mA on the 12V rail and 466mA on the -12V rail.

It's technically "within specification", but you're really pushing it. You want to be under 80% of the rating of the power supply because sometimes modules may pull more power than is actually specified (especially when turning the system on). You'll either have to sacrifice a module or get an additional power supply that doesn't take up space in the rack.

I'll leave critique on your module selection to somebody that's into ambient/drone type stuff.

Thanks for the feedback, Lugia. I might have to get a 3u uMidi in place of the tile option. I was planning to use the clock out from the uMidi to send to the RCD (and other places), but you're not thinking that's a good idea? Are there alternatives that you might recommend?

As for the tile row, I'll probably see if I can get Pulp Logic pieces or other makers that do fit into the synthrotek cases.

I figured it would be wise to keep the Model D in its own case, but I liked the idea of having everything all together. The Synthrotek case has a cool splash-proof top, and I was hoping to take it to a show and load in in a single trip. I guess that's not entirely possible now, but with the new space it opens up, I'm curious if there are any essential pieces that I'm missing here.

Again, any and all help is much appreicated.

Hate to break it to you, but the Intellijel tiles will not fit in a Synthrotek 1U row. You have to go either with an Intellijel cab, and then use only the Intellijel tiles, or go with the 'normal' tile format, which opens up a lot more options but won't allow for the Intellijels. Also, unless you have a Clouds or know you can definitely source one on the used market, you'll have to use a third-party build of that module, since Mutable discontinued in in the last couple of months.

Next up: the RCD requires a clock. While there's things here that might double as one, you're not guaranteed that the RCD will properly 'read' them to derive its divisions. You'll definitely want a proper clock outputting proper trigger pulses to make sure that modules like that work 100% properly.

Definitely some problems here...you might consider stepping back to square one given that the case issue poses a significant stumbling-block to the tile row, and since some of that is critical to the overall function, much of that needs rethinking. Also, consider keeping the Model D in its own case; you'll be glad to have the extra space for modules later on, and it'll work just fine with the modular setup whether it's in the Eurorack cab or not.

Hi everyone,

I just made the jump into eurorack and I'm looking to create atmospheric and ambient music: long, slowly evolving sounds with interesting percussive textures that gradually emerge and dissappear. I'll be sending data to the system with a Digitakt, hence the uMidi. My case is a synthrotek 84hp 6U +1U.

I'm curious what others think about the setup. Am I missing anything essential? Are there redundancies that I should address? Your help is much appreciated. A brief rationale for each module is below.

Thank you for your time!

Model D - an easy way to get a complete synth voice. I plan to use it for drones and patch other sources through its filter for interesting effects. The ext audio in is also cool.

Lo Fi - I'm looking for warbles and a way to treat big atmospheric freeze effects with a cassette tape hue

Magneto - great way to create complex delays with simple melodic and/or percussive sequences

Clouds - useful for ambient work, freeze effects, and more

Ripples - I need a filter beyond the model D. This seems nice.

Quad VCA - You can never have too many VCAs. This one seems useful for controlling all sorts of modulations with the effects.

2hp Euclidean - cool rythmic tool for controlling effect parameters on Magneto, Lo-Fi, and maybe clouds?

4ms Clock Divider - cool way to use Plaits as a percussion tool and get different kinds of sounds, all in sync. Shift function is also a plus.

Plaits - This seems like a great VCO: versatile, melodic, percussive. I want another VCO beyond the D's in order to create paraphonic sequences that slowly appear and disappear.

1U Stuff: Umidi conversion to process data from the digitakt, buff multi, mixers, master headphone out, etc.

EDITED Mar 29th 2018, 01:35

Oh, always keep expansion in mind, and be as fluid as possible about expansion...you never know what mind-warping new module might be about to drop that'll change your whole paradigm up! And frankly, the best way to prepare for later expansion is to admit from square 1 that it's going to happen. This is why I'll often tell users that starting with a larger cab than seems necessary is a must. After you get a taste of modular work, expansion is pretty much a given as the initial build suggests possible new directions, and having the open space on hand already makes exploring those ideas very easy. If there's anything you should keep in mind, it's that; consider going with 6U x 104, or maybe even a 6U x 126 such as the cost-effective offerings from Erica. "Go big or go home" definitely applies to selecting a first case!

EDITED Mar 29th 2018, 00:36

One of the reasons I tend toward putting drum modules in a different build is because, in the end, you probably don't want to treat the drum sounds in the same way in a mix than you would the rest of a typical modular's sound sources. True, you could set up a separate sub-chain for the drum signals within a large build, with separate sources, processing, mixing, and outputs...but it's always seemed more logical to treat drums as 'another instrument' and put its devices separate (but always patchable to the main modular in some way, of course).

As for the 'drum modules are anti-modular' idea...I say that's bunk. Optimally, ALL electronic instruments should interconnect in some way, and that approach in of itself is basically a modular-type approach to the 'studio-as-instrument' concept. Drum modules, machines, controllers are just as valid as anything else as something that should interconnect, and since that interconnectivity includes with a modular...well, there you are!

Now, that being said, I would suggest to the original poster that you might be in better shape at this point in time just concentrating on the synth basics, instead of trying to figure out how two ideas at the same time can be jammed into one 9U x 84 (I presume that's what's meant by '3x84') cab that's actually a starting point for working with modular. Technically, you could jam a percussion synth into a single 84 hp row (see this thread for an example I did recently: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/2828 ), but then that might shortchange space for sequencing and clocking. A better idea, though, would be to follow the other poster's lead in that thread, and use a dedicated drum sequencer (such as an Arturia BeatStep Pro) to control the drums while still either taking clocking from or sending clocking to the main modular. Saves space, avoids certain hassles of adapting non-drum things to drum usage, and so on. It's also hard to beat what it can do for just $249 street, and it's ready to go for both drum triggers (8 channels of those) plus synth sequencing (two full CV/gate outs).

Anyway, just a few ideas...

In terms of sequencing, I'm of the opinion that there's no sequencer more powerful than a DAW. This does create the problem of getting accurate timing to the modular system, but this is resolved with an audio interface that has ADAT out and a handful of Expert Sleepers modules (an ES-3, and ES-5 and an ESX-8GT gets you 8 CV and 16 trigger/gate outs.) However, if you're looking to break away from the computer there's a wide variety of sequencers you can use as well (I'll leave that to the experts).

As for drum modules, I was screwing around with designs and I cooked this dream system up:

The first row is what a system built around "standard-oriented" modules would look like. It's all Tiptop 808/909 drum style modules. It is not at all adventurous when it comes to design, but it does get you plenty of drum horsepower.

The second row is more of a "designer-oriented" drum rig (with the exception of the mixers on the right, which are meant for mixing it all together). It's a quad AD envelope generator, two oscillators, a multi-type noise source, a filter, a waveshaper and a quad-VCA. You could create a single quite complex drum sound, or 3 or 4 simple drum sounds out of this setup.

This could be condensed down by using smaller, simpler oscillators. Also, the waveshaper and filter aren't really completely necessary but they help and give you more options. Once condensed, the module arrangement could be repeated a few times (sans the noise source...you really only need one noise source but you may want a few multiples).

So those are the opinions of somebody who is relatively new to modular on drum synths.

Thanks for the feedback!

My initial idea before trying to get into eurorack was to build it around the Verbos HO but its size rendered the 3u format unusable almost, although I haven't discarded it yet as it is completely functional on its own with minimal modulation.

I'll have your edit in mind and keep both original and yours under revision before buying anything, trying to decide on the final format and all. Your input was highly valuable so thanks again. I understand the need for so many utilities and small modules but for example i'm not sure about the A-121-2+mix substituting the Sisters (ideally i'd buy all of them and try in my own and then just keep the option I like best, but....), I also think I could do without the external input (the A-119 is quite rough and I'd rather run the things straight into the MG with a preamp) and maybe invest in a better envelope generator + follower in that space; the removal of Maths might be quite smart now that I think of it. And yeah, the VCAs... you never can have too many, right?

Thanks again. Do you think I should keep something in mind for future expansion if I ended up building this skiff as is?

Cheers, - nw.

Thanks for the feedback Lugia, will take a look at the expert sleepers. The idea of a nexus mod bank does appeal!
I originally did have a Tides in the rig to complement the Rings, but was for stuck for space!

Hey,

I'm still pretty new to modular too. I've been looking into this myself , and I guess the two routes I see are a more modular approach vs a more clean and digital approach.
To me it feels like one of the most alluring parts of modular is the experimental aspect of it. That, and the power of analog sound. It depends what you're trying to do. If you want accurate BPM with multiple sample options, you could get something like a Pamela's Workout plus a few Pico Drums and have that be enough. I've heard people say that even the idea of a drum module is anti-modular. Learning how to synthesize the sounds from scratch has been so far the most interesting, as well as the most valuable addition to extending my knowledge in VSTs.
Since you have the space, it might be worth it to slowly build and invest in individual oscillators and noise sources and clock generators so you can make interesting, original drum sounds and patterns. But if precision and efficiency are your goals then you'll probably want more digital modules.
Hope this helps.

Hello people,
Ive started building my eurorack synth two weeks ago. And to be clear: I dont know a lot about modular.
All it contains at the moment is:
- Mutable Instruments Plaits (oscillator)
-Doepfer A-143-1 (complex LFO/Envelope generator)

I have plenty of space (3x84)
I want to:
- be able to have a kick, snare and a hi hat to be triggered to a certain bpm
- be able to choose from multiple kicks, snares etc (does it have to be digital then?)

I like the revised version, m1sterlurk. You improved it quite a bit. Are you still looking to change things up or did you settle with that?

EDITED Aug 21st 2022, 12:56

had an amazing experience with @Groove_Addict, super solid user!!! received a module in amazing conditions, top communication!!! thank you mate!!!

Wow, so crazy. I did some similar research and couldn't find the connection either. Sounds like Subotnick's work came first but not by much. I wonder the Silver Apples were simply playing homage to him when they named their group. If its a crazy cosmic significance, it would be totally freaking legendary. I'm gonna read that Yeats poem. haha

I'll let you know if i learn anything else.

Also check out my instagram, Blacksqre, to hear some of my stuff.

On the whole, it's not bad. But given that your plan is to directly interface the Rackbrute 3U to these other sources, I'm kinda of the opinion that creating something less audio-oriented might be a better idea. There's a lot of modulation and ancillary modules that could populate the case and having that as a 'nexus' for the other patchables seems sensible, especially since this would be part of a rig where there's already three patchable synths specced out. Plus, if you used the Keybrute direct into the Rackbrute cab, that could serve to branch and reprocess the control signals coming from that. To start with, go and have a look at the Expert Sleepers FH-1. That module is a USB host-to-CV/gate...which would allow you to directly interface the Keybrute into the modular setup, and from THAT you could process and branch (with polyphony, in theory!) to all of the other synths.

Remember: just because it uses synthesizer modules doesn't necessarily mean that it has to make sound itself!

Actually, I have to do the exact same thing for the more promising large-scale builds that I've been whittling on. But I don't exactly see how this might be cleanly done; it seems like you'd have to probably specify the power system's architecture during case creation, and then going back to make corrections after the fact, which may or may not work out neatly, depending on what went into the module spec.

But also, sometimes when cobbling together the amperage-check racks, I'll notice something that maybe could've been handled better. So I'm not at all averse to that method of checking current loading. To me, it's just another aspect of the refinement processes of a given build.

Well, I know that the name originates in a poem by W.B. Yeats, "The Song of Wandering Aengus"...which then brings in a third musical connection, because there was a very famous studio in Boston, MA that also played a part in equipment design and manufacture. For more on that point, see here: http://mmone.org/aengus-studios/

But aside of that, there isn't a connection beyond the poem. According to Wikipedia, there's no mention of a connection between the band and the Subotnick work, nor does the band's official website mention one. However...

Subotnick: "...I'd been staging multimedia performances with dance companies using projections and coloured oils since the early 60s, which was several years before psychedelia is supposed to have started." (The Guardian, 6 Mar 2014)

Now, this is interesting. While I couldn't find a 1:1 connection, it's worth noting that by the time Subotnick composed his work, he was in NYC, which is the same scene that the band developed in. And the band did have some avant-garde music connections, as cellist Charlotte Moorman worked with them a few times, and Moorman was a veteran of the avant-garde scene, working most notably with the composer/video art pioneer Nam June Paik. If Subotnick was still into the psychedelic scene after arriving in New York, their paths very likely crossed, either directly or indirectly.

So, while neither says anything about the origin of one thing in another's work, it's probably best to say that there is a connection, but one that came through similar ideas in the mutual scene...sort of a product of the zeitgeist, if you will. And given the fascination with the mystical back in that period on all sides of the art scene, it's not surprising that Yeats' poetry might've been a touchstone for both Simeon and Subotnick. So, my vote goes for 'crazy cosmic significance'.

EDITED Mar 27th 2018, 21:22

hi guys

Am new to Eurorack and would value your advise on my suggested new plaything.
I already have a Micro Brute and Korg SQ1, on order is a Behringer Model D and Keystep.
I will also be getting the Behringer Neutron when it finally comes out. I see the Eurorack gear interacting and interfacing with this.

The 5HP of blanks are for allowing for the Rack Brute power supply!

Many thanks for your help.

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_632874.jpg?1522161210

Trying to put together an A-100 Basic System 2 with available modules. Throwing in some LZX Industries modules to add some visual effects. What do you guys think of the audio and video module layouts?:

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions!

I have two Doepfer Monster cases, both cases have two power supplies which each power two "half rows". Having the option to specify the amount of power supplies in that case and then assign modules to a specific power supply so that I get the power consumption summed up per power supply (and maybe also the sum of all modules), would be awesome.
At the moment I create temporary cases (one for the left half and one for the right half) which gets fiddly quite fast and lacks the overview a single, large rack would give.

Does this sound useful for you? Or do you guys think this is a more of a "special"/uncommon use-case?

Oh and I love this site! Thanks for creating such a helpful tool.

Seems to be a forté among modular users. I tried my first generative patch the other day and it was rather fun! Post your best generative patch.

-- sislte

It's sounds like good i am also creating a generative patches on Presentation Topic. It's will be complete in a working days.
Regard: Johan William

EDITED Mar 27th 2018, 09:16

I've always been a huge fan of the Silver Apples but I just learned about Morton Subotnicks, Silver Apples of the Moon.

Is there a connection here or just some crazy cosmic significance that the two most famous 60's synth/electronic musicians have essentially the same name for their music?

Would love some insight here. Thanks

I love this sequencer. Been playing with it for over a year now and I still love it. It's awesome for generating melodies and bass lines. I feel like it's criminally overlooked and underrated.

Yeah, this is actually not bad as you're going to expand it. As for that second 84 hp skiff, I'd actually suggest using that plus a nice clocking/trigger sequencer for the drum modules. It'd give you more room in what would be the 'main' cab, and turn the skiff into something 'mission-specific', namely a bespoke drum machine. If using the BSP is the idea, then I'd say load that skiff up with drums and some mixing (stereo, natch) plus a little bit of FX to make a beefy little drum box when the BSP's in use as the controller. (looking at one of my BSPs) Hm...yeah, this is really a doable idea. Here's what I'd do:

This is probably totally irresponsible as far as drum skiff designs go. Much of it is 808/909, but there's some weird crap added, such as the screwy dual tom module and all the crap on the left side, which allows you to build two more drum 'voices', one using external signals and the other with chipnoise racket, and both gated by a dual AR controlling a dual LPG. Two mixers down on the end allow direct-output in stereo, with four pannable voices and the rest in some variation on mono/center. I have a distinct feeling that this might be capable of hurting people.

EDITED Mar 27th 2018, 00:54

Well, if that's the idea, then there's some problems right off. First up: no signal input. This is a big problem for the external processing function, since you'll need to boost signals up to synth levels to work with them, and nothing here does that. Also, whatever you get for that function also needs to have an envelope follower as a matter of course; envelope followers track the dynamic level of a signal and convert that signal level into a control voltage that can be used for things such as filter cutoffs, VCA controls, etc. Necessary. Very.

Mixing via the Optomix is possible...but really, you need a second mixer (preferably with VCAs) here as well. It's not enough to just mix audio in a modular, as you can get very useful results from mixing different LFO/envelope/etc CVs as well, creating composite modulation signals from that.

Disting is nowhere near useless. It simply does too much to call it that, and for small skiffs like this, you need major multifunctionality. If I were to term something something I see here as 'unnecessary', it might actually be the Just Friends, but a lot of that is due to Mannequins' trendy psuedo-babble that they use to describe the module's functions...as to which, I would like to quote the great thespian Samuel L. Jackson: "ENGLISH, MOTHERF***ER! DO YOU SPEAK IT!?" Seriously, if I have to pull out a copy of 'Psychology Today' to figure out what a module does, I call that 'fail: major'. Anyway, terminology aside, you might even consider TWO Distings, considering what Expert Sleepers jams into the 4 hp they occupy.

I'm gonna tinker with this a bit...but I'm also going to presume that this isn't a powered skiff, and add a power supply just to be on the safe side. If you don't need that, then I suggest dropping in that second Disting, but this'll be done with only one:

OK, now that's solid. Notice that there's a bunch of itty-bitty modules here now, but the functionality is jacked way up. The optional P/S is at left, and like I said, if you're using a powered skiff, just replace it with another Disting and put that next to the one that's there.

External input: added. Morphagene and Telharmonic, as the heads of the signal paths, are right of the Disting(s). Then things change a lot. Next up is a Happy Nerding 3xVCA, which allows you to use the VCAs together in mixing or separately, as needed. Next, I mashed the Maths down to two of its contituent circuits with the pair of Doepfer A-171-2s, saving 4 hp. Waveshaper next, then a pair of modules: a Doepfer A-121-2 multimode VCF (which outputs all modes on separate jacks) and a 2hp mixer, which allows you to mix the VCF's outputs to get some very weird filter voicings. Same space as the Sisters, but still quite strange and cheaper. Then more VCA/mixing, and two FX processors, a 2hp delay and an Erica Pico DSP, which also serves to stereoize your mixed mono signal, so that you get a stereo signal out the right side with that Ladik output, which also has metering and separate inputs so that you can run the Morphagene path out through one, and have the Telharmonic voice on the other.

This thing is capable of some pretty nutzoid stuff, even with the minimal modulation section, due to the Disting (maybe two) and extra VCAs. As far as multiples go, my suggestion is, like with any small skiff, to use inline multiples or stackable cables and just be careful not to connect outputs to outputs. Should work...granted, it's a bitch trying to cram two different signal paths into 104 hp, but it IS doable!

EDITED Mar 27th 2018, 00:00

also my sequencer is a beatstep pro :) so i got plenty of trigger options

im looking into getting the maths and morphagene in time... but what do you recon of the rest so far? do i sort of have a decent idea and without certain modules being without use?

Can you post the link to the modulargrid page for your rack instead of screenshotting/uploading a picture? It's easier for people to play around with the system and make recommendations.

Hey, been lurking around here, mw and lines for a while; wanted to put together this 3u but still not sure how capable this combination of modules would be.

The idea would be to have a synthetic voice plus the MG for manipulating (the 3u itself + acoustic instruments an field recordings) or as a tabula rasa to build patterns and "track". The MG being the center of the skiff, would have modulation from Pam's (which would clock everything plus sequence little phrases or add randomness when needed) and I would run it through Sisters (which at the same time would also filter the Telharmonic). Optomix and Maths as function generator and to modulate the Sisters, MG and the Telharmonic, mix some signals. Folder and Disting are pretty much self explanatory. I'm not sure how much I would need the Disting so I could replace it with something else.

Any improvements/changes/swaps you would suggest? Feel free to point out anything! (I wouldn't be surprised if this is full of dumb or redundant choices if not useless at all, so...)
Looking forward to the discussion ~

           Thanks, 
                           nw.

EDITED Mar 26th 2018, 21:54

any info on how these were made?

I don't have such a problem with using the computer to manipulate controls, etc, probably because I've been doing that so long I either don't notice, or VCV's UI coding is good enough that it doesn't drive me up the wall. As a basic learning tool for the underlying concepts of modular synthesis, I'd have to say that it's unparalleled at this point. Everything behaves like it should, albeit up to a point.

That point is, as I noted, when VCV Rack runs into its processor limitation. And I wasn't too pleased when I got a snarky reply from the developer as to the possibility of it having multiprocessor capabilities in the future. To me, that's a problem, and it's also a problem when the primary developer refers to a professional musician as a 'layperson', as if the point of the VCV project is the coding and not the end-use. It struck me as unprofessional, and gave me certain concerns for the long-term usability of VCV at a large-scale level if the intentions don't involve creating something pro-grade. For cobbling 20-30 modules together to do virtual basic builds, it's fine. But if I want to construct something extremely complex and sizable as to scale...as I've found...it's not going to work after a certain point because timing issues, severe audio glitches, and the like begin to creep in as it hits the top-end limit of the sole processor core it runs on. That's unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.

Consequently, I've been doing a lot less long-term work with it over the past week, after discovering that critical limitation and the developer's apparent unwillingness/inability to address it. I'll keep an eye on it, however, and hopefully this will get dealt with by the time we reach the 1.0 iteration...but I'm not holding my breath.

As for the Behringer Neutron...again, not holding my breath. It took them quite some time to start delivering the Model D in any sizable quantities after making it 'available' to retailers, and despite the fact that some beta users have prototypes, to me, that means nothing. My suggestion would be to avoid Uli's vaporware and instead look at patchables from manufacturers that put product out, instead of teasing about it until hell freezes over; IMHO, Uli Behringer needs to shut the f**k up, quit trolling certain forums to cadge marketing ideas, and stop doing cheezeball renders of 'new products' and hyping his 'development' of things that, frankly, already existed and which shouldn't require much 'developing' in order to bring them up to speed for the 21st century.

I have been playing with VCV to get my head around some aspects of modular, but still I am getting tired of clicking on a screen. Also having to dig around third party modules for VCV to do some basic stuff gets a bit boring (0.6.0 I hear should help that though).

My initial thought was to buy modules slowly and use VCV rack with the modules but so far that isn't happening.

I reckon the Behringer Neutron is going to be something that I get as it's got plenty of patch points.