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My racks are a bit of mess between what I have and some desired modules... but I own about 90% of what's in my racks. Who ISN'T planning a rack upgrade?

As far as the 1010 Music Bit Box... you might like it. It also runs two alternative firmwares: one is a wavetable synth and the other is a multi-effects processor. If you buy the Bitbox, SynthBox, or FXBox, it's all the same module with different writing on the face-plate. You simply download the other firmwares to new microSD cards and then load the firmware. It's a big module at 26HP and $600... but you can find it on sale for as low as $500 brand new.

Be careful about the 1U 3rd party modules. Intellijel 1U isn't compatible with Pulp Logic 1U.

Plum Audio makes a 1U Ornaments and Crime for the Intellijel system labeled with "For Robots." It's more expensive than your typical O_C unit. But what makes it additionally fun is the extended CV range.
https://www.plum-audio.com/product-page/1uo-c-4robots

I really LIKE the O_C module. For me it's how I would envision a user-friendly Disting module would be laid out. I like the quantizer in it. The sequencer is also pretty nice and responds in some very interesting ways if you wish. I haven't got into some of the more exotic features with LFOs and shift registers. There's a modded firmware that uses better descriptions. Plus, as you mentioned, at least one other full alternate firmware. I've not messed with them. I've had my O_C since first starting my rack. It will take you a minute to learn the layout and how to get around. It's also not a module you want to try and make setting changes with too quickly because it's easy to adjust the wrong thing if you're not paying attention. But I still really like it. I use my Temps Utile a lot more... but mainly as a clock divider or Euclidean rhythm generator. Your Pamela does everything a Temps Utile does I believe....

If you gave me your rack, would I put one in there. Yes.

I hate my Disting. I find the user interface to be just jacked and difficult to work through. However, it's a great module to have if you want to explore lots of different functions. I've used to to figure out what kind of modules I'd want to have complete versions of... like a quantizer or a comb filter, reverb, etc. It's also great in those "I just need one more (blank)!" moments... an extra VCA, an extra oscillator.

In all honesty, a Eurorack drum machine sounds great on paper. But once you start pricing out everything you're going to need, you'll find it to be an extremely expensive way to go... even if you get dedicated drum modules. That's a lot of money to reinvent a drum machine. I bought a 1010 Music BitBox to act as an in-rack record/playback system. Boom. All my drums. I can also record in-sync. So if I have a long ambiance, I can loop record it or any other part.

Beware the rabbit hole. It will suck your wallet dry.

After that symphony of self-awareness, I don't need to add anything, except to point out that you're the only one in this thread who seems to be melting down over a little criticism. But good one about us snowflakes.
-- tyson

You must be reading things in your outrage voice again. Zero meltdown. I really don't care, honestly. Everything was moving along nicely and someone got triggered and felt the need to social justice warrior all over the forum. Is there anyone else feeling sensitive who needs a tissue?

Enjoying the conversation.

The Disting has a slew limiting mode. I'm not sure how advanced it is, but you might want to try it out with the Mimetic. The Disting also has a Euclidean mode. So you might be able to have it take on those duties if you're trying to spare you Pam. I use a Temps Utile for my Euclidean stuff. Same principle.

I listened to your Youtube... cool. Yeah... I'd definitely plan for a nice reverb module sometime in the future. I hope you have the money and space! :)

I'm not familiar with Stages so I can't give you any thoughts of how you can incorporate it. I know it can do envelopes.

Befaco makes a 6HP slew limiter. You'll find quite a few slew limiters that are 6HP and under.

I hope you get your computer fixed soon to record your stuff. You can use the Disting to record audio with if you have something you want to keep. Just be aware that the Disting records at 46kHz and not the standard 44.1 or 48... so you'll have to sample rate convert anything you pull off the micro-SD card.

Tasty.

I'm looking at the rack. The Erica DSP and the Disting are both capable of producing reverbs, delays, and can be addressed via CV for modulation. I'd try using those. That Mimetic Digitalis would be great for varying parameters of either or both. Make Noise offers a slew limiter much like the two in Maths... but in a much smaller package. I'm not telling you to get one. But a slew limiter can give you a much more musical transition between CV signals that suddenly change in voltage. For the most part, slew limiters come in two varieties: one that slews rising and falling slopes the same (basic), one that slews rising and falling slopes independently (like Make Noise Maths or Befaco Rampage). The Mimetic responds to gates/triggers to advance to the next step. So you could supply those with the Squarp in any rhythm you find useful.

I'm still on the fence about the Wavetable synth. I dug a little deeper. It seems that it can only work with internal wavetables, though Erica does have a ROM expander for them. Without hearing all of the wavetables... I can't really pass much judgment on it... but it seems to be redundant if you have a Plaits module. It's not a wavetable synth, but you can get variations on a sound in the same manner (different architectures but you can index variation(s) of a sound in the same manner).

The Noise Engineering BIA is nice. I own one as well. The Noise Engineering stuff can be a little harsh sounding sometimes. But all of those strange harmonics might be nice if you're drowning the original signal in reverb as drone fodder.

I think the bottom line is that you might want to try a little harder to make something useful with the Erica before giving up on it. Not because I think it's a great module or not a great module, but it might be an opportunity to flex/grow your knowledge even if you ultimately dump it.

i litterally have 20 pounds why am i here
-- DKraftman

Because you have Eurolust. Have you tried VCV Rack yet? It's a Eurorack simulation and it's free. You can keep your 20 quid in your pocket and pick up some knowledge while that 20 is growing to a couple thousand. When you have the funds, you'll spend them wiser and get more out of your investment.

On the less expensive end... an inexpensive rack and a synth-voice module is a good entry point. You can even go with something like a Behringer Neutron, a Moog Mother 32, as stand-alone synths that can be patched into a Eurorack system. They are great synths to start with and will stay relevant no matter how much your system grows.

I looked at your rack above as well as your update (by clicking the link of the picture). You've put in some more work.

The first thing that draws my attention is the QPAS filter. It's a niche stereo filter. There's noting wrong with the QPAS, put apart from the "Outs," there's nothing else in your rack that really supports a stereo signal. I'd want something like a Joranalogue Filter 8 or an Intellijel Morgasmatron if I was putting together a first rack and add the QPAS later when my system could support it.

You talk of "space/ocean" styles of sounds. That makes me think of reverbs with long decay times and delays with a lot of feedback. I don't see any modules of those types in the rack. Eurorack effects that are designed to be modulated are awesome. There are other options with outboard gear like pedals... it's going to depend on your needs.

Also missing are any dedicated utility modules. The Maths can do some of that work as far as attenuating and attenuverting signals. But if its doing that duty, you might not be able to use it for something else.

Some other bits you may want to add would be some sort of noise source (pink and white). Noise can add a bit of character to a sound, especially when mixed and filtered with that sound. Sample & Hold as well as a logic module will give you some additional possibilities... but only you can say if that would fit your needs.

The Zadar is good. But it might not be bad to have a couple of traditional ADSRs as well. I'd go with an ADSR with lots of CV inputs like a TipTop Z4000 and have one or two of them in the rack.

For your set-up, I'd have one mixer that's capable of audio and CV mixing (the Mixup should do this) but I'd also have a main mixer with even more channels. I have a Blue Lantern Stereo Sir-Mix-A-Lot. it has six inputs plus two stereo returns. It was in the $200-$300 price range. That might be the ticket since you'll probably be adding more modules and possibly effects. It would also be great pairing it with the QPAS.

Well... it's hard to say if you need to replace the Wavetable VCO. As a source, it doesn't have a lot of modulation inputs. Are you running the VCO through... filters, wavefolders, distortion, comb filters, etc.? Each module you place between the VCO and the reverb is an opportunity to alter your sound as well as modulate that alteration.

When you wash something in reverb, the sound basically smears. Subtle differences in timbre tend to wash away. So you might want to possibly try the same VCO and run it through two completely different signal paths (or more!) then mix between them using some very slow modulation... just an example.

Before you toss the Wavetable VCO and spend more money, maybe a picture of your current set-up would be helpful. Oh, and the 2HP reverb is pretty limited (I own one). It's good to have. But I'd want something with more parameters that can be modulated. Oh.. and have you tried placing a filter after the reverb. Even a simple band-reject filter can add some motion to your ambient sound.

Wow. I appreciate hearing others' experiences here, but the sycophancy and lack of self-awareness in Ronin's last post just drives home what toxic tendencies this forum unfortunately has. (Talk of "triggering" is sort of a giveaway.) Style and substance are of course not two unrelated things, and the irony of not appreciating either here is a bit much. Anyway, thanks, Hazel, for the lovely video links. And thanks for sticking your head above the parapet with your well-written, and, yes, substantial contributions to this thread. Hope to hear more from you on another forum.
-- tyson

I'm completely aware of myself. I just find it infantile to sit and be critical of someone who is HELPING you. If you want someone to stroke your hair and tell you what a good boy you are... that's not happening. You get curt and frank advice. When you toss a bunch of modules in a rack and ask for feedback. That's what you get. If you'd like to show me the errors in my suggestions. If you disagree with my suggestions... fine too. I also learn a lot from other peoples' advice.

What I won't do is baby you in your excitement to put something in the box without knowing what knowing what you need to make the box work. Sorry if I'm not playing the social-media, social-correctness game that is so important to you. But it seems YOU and quite a few others have decided to plant your flag on some sort of social etiquette rant rather than learning how to use a control voltage synthesizer. Do you have any other complaints or social snowflake boo-hoos or are we done?

Thanks, Lugia, for chiming in. I’m going to try to make a few points and then I’ll be taking a break from this. (I don’t mean for that to sound as temperamental as it may.)
blah
blah
b;aj
For any readers that might be interested, I came across this interview with Ann Annie and found it insightful and inspiring. I also found that it kind of contradicted Lugia and Ronin’s points. Also! I learned that Ann Annie’s first step into eurorack was with a Mother 32, and a 42HP rack with only one module. Kind of ironic considering the OP of this thread... You see: eurorack can all start with a very simple, restrictive setup. There’s a good chance you’ll have an excellent time with it, and as you begin to learn more, you’ll start realizing the next best steps you should take towards creating your own personal, ideal rack.

-- Hazel

You seem like a passive-aggressive troll that has nothing of any substance to seriously contribute... but hey... that's just my opinion. You seem pretty much all about criticizing others. I agree with Lugia... show me some substance.

EDITED Nov 25th 2019, 17:07

I'd much rather get someone triggered and thinking instead of coddling them in platitudes, lies about their build, etc and then letting them discover on their own that they've blown several grand on The Machine That Goes "Ping!". The latter isn't a responsible stance at all.

-- Lugia

That's what I named my rig when I started out... because I appreciated the irony.

Thanks tyson… the last thing I want for active members of this forum to feel is like they’re being ganged up on, but it’s also nice to know I’m not alone here.

I managed to track down the video I mentioned in my last post. Whether or not this music is one’s taste is of course not the point. It has 33k views and over a thousand likes and the first two comments are: “this wins the grammy for best generative synth track” (Lugia’s thread titled “Why your 6U x 84 generative rig won't work” might be worth bringing up). And then: “This just leaves me breathless everytime I listen to it. It's almost painfully beautiful..”
Scroll further down and someone posts: “Amazing! How is it possible to obtain more information on a setup like this? I am no musician but I would love to have something like this at home and play around with it. I guess it will be a diccicult task to master...”

Here’s an answer/plausible scenario. Do some research and come across a site called modular grid with the unique feature of being able to create a virtual rack which you can submit for feedback. Post a similar setup to this video (or even an identical one). Receive criticism along the lines of this:

1. Lots of attractive modules but totally lacking in utility modules. Will make a great decoration or prop but good luck making music with it.

2. TWO Rings + an Elements and Plonk! Call the redundancy department. And way too many mutable instruments modules. Plus these are available in smaller HP so a total waste of space.

3. I see an Optomix but no real VCAs? Totally unusable.

4. I suggest doing a lot more research before posting another rack. Etc, etc…

Looking at a price tag around 5 thousand dollars and facing comments like these, feel really discouraged (and confused?) and never take the next steps towards getting into modular synthesis.

Was the genre of synthesis potentially just harmed?
-- Hazel

Thanks for the post. Ann Annie is pretty famous in modular. The rack you're looking at works. But I seriously doubt that this rack is all of Ann Annie's modules. This rack was probably specifically built for this piece by someone with some serious knowledge and talent. If you want to reproduce this song with those sounds... perfect. But we're discussing what usually turns out to be someone's full kit that has to be more than a one-trick-pony.

Some of my favorite modules are Ornaments & Crime as well as Temps Utile.

I have the Pittsburgh sequencer. I hate that thing with a passion. You'll get more use out of an Ornaments & Crime and more features in 8HP (microversion) than the 10HP Pittsburgh. That's beyond the scope of what you're asking. But I found it worth mentioning.

It also can function as a quantizer, LFO, and some other nice functions

The Temps Utile can function as a 1-in, 6-out clock divider/multiplier. It also does Euclidean and simple trigger sequences, some internal logic, and is also 8HP.

Research those two modules and see if they fit within your creative horizons.

You also mentioned, I think it was Ronin1973 that new users lack knowledge on triggers, gates, clocks etc. I think you hit the nail on the head right there.
-- Groc

I read your whole post. But this line jumped out at me the most. If we were to write "the book" one of the biggest recommendations would be to download and install VCV Rack. The basic system is free and there are a lot of free expansions. It's an entire Eurorack-style ecosystem that will allow you to add and play with modules using virtual Eurorack standards. When you're trying to get a feel for what is a trigger, gate, clock, CV, etc. it's an invaluable resource for learning and trying things out hands on. You'll walk away with a lot more knowledge of how modular works in the real world... by doing. I can't stress it enough.

Eurorack is tricky to get your mind around coming from DAWs and hardware MIDI. I think people get comfortable with virtual plug-ins and traditional MIDI instruments that are far easier to use than control voltages. Being able to recall complete patches and using a working INIT patch means little thought has to be given to HOW different components actually communicate with each other. In Eurorack, you literally have to make the connections between components by hand.

As you discover how CV works, you'll notice a lot of very basic modules can really unleash the full power of such a retro method of making synth sounds. It's that level of control that, personally, brought me to Eurorack.

It's all good. I hope you stay around for quite a while and post frequently. I'm still learning a lot as well. There's always an interesting way to do things.

For what you are planning, the lack of filters, VCAs, VCFs, attenuators and attenuverters, you are just going to have a very expensive and poorly functioning sampler on your desk.

You've fallen into the same pit as most people new to Eurorack fall into. You seem to not understand HOW a control voltage environment works and you're cherry picking modules that you seem to like. You really need to educate yourself how Eurorack/modular synthesis works and start planning AFTER.

I realize that you're planning for this to work with VCV Rack. But there are gaping holes here. I'm not picking on you. I hope everything works out well and you get everything out of your gear you're looking for. But this build is just lacking.

My best advice to you would be to download VCVRack (it's free) and set up a virtual Eurorack synth then try to play it.

In this set-up you're missing a lot of key elements to even a basic synth. What is a VCA? Why are they important and what can you do with them? Do you know the types of VCAs that are around? How many would you suggest for this set-up? What is an attenuator and/or an attenuverter?

How will you attenuate control voltages going to the resonance input for your VCF for example. The filter cut-off has a knob that functions as an attenuator... but the resonance doesn't. Manufacturers put attenuators and attenuverters (an added expense) on inputs they believe will get a lot of use. But there's no rules saying that they have to. If you want to control the amount of attenuation with other parts of your system, you'll need VCAs as well.

How will this synth play notes? There's nothing on here that can deliver a sequence of pitches AND gates. The Vari-Gate only does gates. What will handle pitch information?

You're also missing a lot of modulation sources. LFOs are very handy and standard sources of modulation. There's not one here. Where are the envelope generators? The Maths can do simple two stage envelopes... but what about ADSR envelopes?

Regarding the filter. It's only a low-pass filter. It has different outputs that supports different cut-off slopes. But that's the only kind of filtering you can do with it. I'd check out something like the Joranalogue Filter 8 to give yourself a lot more options... unless you're going to add a few other filter types to your system, which would be expensive.

The mixer is DC-coupled (so it can mix audio or it can mix control voltages). It's fine. But you may also want to consider an output module that converts synth level to line level. Modular synths operate at a much louder volume than your average line level synth.

Maths. Maths is a great utility module to have around. But it's a jack-of-all-trades.

Eurorack is pretty trendy today. There are a lot of people who are excited to get into it. I don't blame them.

But in the rush to get into the genre of synthesizer, they often don't bother understanding what makes Eurorack actually WORK.

So a nice percentage of racks that are put up for advice are like the one above. Recommending modules for ambient music making... no problem. Discourse and disagreement on what modules to recommend? Always.

However, simply acting like a sales clerk and watching people throw good money after bad is a thorn in the side of many people in this forum. Is it their money? No. Is it going to affect them personally? No.

However, it does affect the genre of synthesis. When people walk away from a bad experience... they blame the gear and the genre. Yet they refuse to learn how control voltage systems ACTUALLY work. The rack above follows suit. The recommendation to buy module-du-jour for making ambient music from... THAT RACK... you're just piling on the bad.

As I said, I can't speak for Lugia. But I believe his views are similar to mine. We want people to have great experiences and really enjoy their racks and cases. But they have to get past the first hurdle of what exactly IS a modular synth and how do you interface with it?

I read your post. You have an SV-1 and a Keystep. This rack will be in addition to those pieces.

"I want to have a lot of diversity, functionality in a small rack."
The nature of modular makes this a very difficult request to fulfill. I'm assuming that the SV-1 is going to be your go-to synth and what's in the rack will compliment the SV-1. What do you feel is missing from the SV-1/Keystep combination? Where are you going with your music?

Garfield mentioned getting the 7U version of a case. I would definitely recommend that too. It's a little more money up front. But you get more space and more features in the 7U cases.

As far as what you HAVE in the rack posted above... IF you get a 7U case, you will definitely not need the Intellijel audio I/O 1U JACKS module. Those are built into the back of the case and have a connector for the Intellijel audio I/O module.

The pedal I/O and pedal jacks I/O are nice to have. But there are better modules that will fit in that 1U space. Get an Intellijel Quadratt for mixing, inverting, and scaling your CV and even audio. You'll find it more useful than that other stuff (the Duatt doesn't offer enough channels in my opinion). Eurorack versions of reverb, delay, and bread and butter effects are nice due if they have CV inputs for real time modulation of parameters. That's something you generally can't do with most general, stand-alone effects units.

There are some things that might give you a wider palette of sound such as a module capable of ring modulation and/or distortion. You're on the right track with a wave folder. You can overdrive a signal with your Duatt... but there's no way to directly modulate the module. It's still not a bad module, though.

Another consideration is that you're using a lot of Mutable Instrument modules. There are smaller micro versions of these available. If you can handle the smaller knobs, it's a great way to save rack space for other modules.

I'd also suggest a module like Ornaments & Crime. Your Keystep has an on-board sequencer. But having a second sequencer that can be locked to the Keystep and be modulated within the rack is also helpful. Sequencers can be used to influence modulation rather than playing notes. The O_C can also generate envelopes rather than gates... so it can get you a long way even if used in a subtle manner.

To summarize. What you have here in conjunction with the SV-1 and Keystep isn't bad. Just go with a larger case. As you dive deeper into Eurorack, you're going to probably want to add more modules or swap out what you have for something else that might need more room. Give yourself room to expand.

I reread your original post. You're want to use Ableton with your rack. Cool.

Here are some ideas.

The Expert Sleeper modules are very good when it comes to interfacing with a DAW.

The FH-2 and newly release ES-9 are worth checking out.

The FH-2 converts MIDI to control voltage. The 8 outputs can be set up as either gates/triggers or CV. So any combination is possible with CV, gates, clocks, etc. The FH-2 is also expandable if you need more outputs.

The ES-9 skips the translation from MIDI CV and acts as a direct gateway between your DAW and your rack: audio, CV, gates in both directions.

They aren't cheap and they aren't exactly easy to set-up/edit, even when using the browser interface. But they are very powerful. I'd do a little research on them as well as any alternatives by other manufacturers.

I'm not understanding the point of Hazel's post. It seems to be hyper-critical of those who responded a year ago.

To shed some light on my take on the community: we're not sales people. This isn't a music store. We're not going to make a recommendation without giving some background. There will be side conversations related to the original post but straying away a little from the original post. That happens in most casual conversations. Lugia has a valid point regarding making ambient music. It's not the module du jour that makes a genre work. It's the knowledge acquired producing it.

In my short experience with modular, there's a large segment of new people who seek out specific modules but do not have the experience or knowledge to create a system around those modules that will work as a viable creative platform. So the conversation centers around someone putting together a collection of attractive modules with no infrastructure built in to actually make them work as a cohesive instrument.

Besides criticism of other members and their decades of experience... what are you offering to this year old thread?

Something to think about.

To "fix" your system there aren't any small adjustments to be made. That's the point we're trying to express. To make your proposed system worthwhile in the limited amount of space really isn't workable. We have to add functionality and there's just no space to do that. A larger case would make it possible. Until there is more space, you're not going to get anywhere.

For what you have here... you'd be better off buying a semi-modular synth and a simple desktop sampler. It will be less expensive and complete.

If you're going to do this all in the confines of Eurorack, you're going to need a bigger budget and a bigger case. Sorry to be that blunt about it. But there's no making this build work with just a couple of tweaks.

I'm looking for a vector space quite some now; I'll definitely snatch one if it pops up in a good price!Seems like a well though out module..
Batumi and Zadar are nice dedicated LFOs/EGs.
I'm quite pleased with O&C quad LFOs which is less than half their price..
I don't quite like the envelopes on the O&C though, I don't like the Peaks' envelopes either; can't exactly express why they just don't feel "right"/snappy enough..
My other gripe with Batumi is that it's basic signals only and I think I'm quite covered on those with my two Stages..
I should take a closer look to Tides v2, it seems more useful than Tides v1.

-- belzrebuth

Now is a good time to buy as we're getting into Black Friday sales. Check out Perfect Circuit if you're in the USA.

If you're looking for snappy EGs, you'll probably have to go with analog envelope generators the Z4000 EGs from Tip Top are designed to be very snappy. The Z4000's also include controls for scaling as well as attenuverting the output (negative envelope generators, or EGs that start out negative range and peak in positive... you get the idea.

I've found the Batumi to be pretty useful in a small footprint. If you have alternatives then its redundant... but an option. If I'm looking for a "less basic" LFO, I have VCOs that get far down into that range and with some additional modulation can create some interesting LFOs.

Small builds are a lot harder to plan out than large builds. There are more factors stacking up against you. You need a lot of knowledge of modular to pull it off and get what you need out of your build.

If you're new to modular, it might seem counter-intuitive. But a larger build is going to be much more forgiving and give you what you want and need for more generalized and beginner purposes. A smaller set-up will be less expensive by the shear token that there are fewer components. But it's moot if the components you put together won't give you the functionality that you're going to need.

This is a common problem and misconception when planning your first rack: "oh, I'll go smaller to save some money." But you end up spending a fair amount of coin for results that will be less than pleasing unless you absolutely know what you're doing.

The K2 is on my short-list. I watched the Perfect Circuit demo of it. There are some modern applications and sounds you can get out of it... as well as some of those fat early 1980's funk and R&B sounds. But the Perfect Circuit demo seemed pretty tasty to me.

Modulation and an all-black rig.

Okay...
Worng Electronics Vector Space - combining modulation sources for interesting results
Xaoc Batumi and Poti in their alternate black face-plates - quad digital LFO with expander.
Xaoc Zadar in black face-plate. Quad digital envelope generator. An expander is also available for this (don't know name).

You can get smaller versions of most of the Mutable Instruments stuff if you're okay with smaller knobs.

The micro version of the Temps Utile is 8HP. It offers up to 6 channels of Euclidean rhythms, gate sequencing, clocks, clock dividing/multiplying, etc.

Maths makes for great slew limiting since the rising and falling slopes can be slewed at different rates. You could also use a Befaco Rampage instead. It depends what other features you'd also like to have on-tap.

Reading glasses. I've given in to my age and I use them when I need them. It's best to just leave a pair of readers next to your set-up. I found a pair of fold-up glasses that fit into a case the size of an oversized cigarette lighter. I keep them in my pocket.

The next issue for older eyes would be proper lighting. I love a dimly lit room when I'm being creative. But dim light makes seeing tiny print even harder. For this, I have tree solutions. I placed a large lamp in my music room. I also have a desktop lamp with a gooseneck. The third thing is having a USB charging port connected to the 5v rails in each of my 3 cases (Intellijel). I can then use USB gooseneck reading lamps in my case. But you'll want to check if they inject noise into your signal and pull them before recording.

For rhythmic complexity... I like Euclidean generators. I won't explain them here, but you can find several modules capable of generating them either as dedicated modules or a function within... like the Temps Utile module. I'm also considering buying a second hand Trigger Riot after watching a few videos on it. I really like the idea of creating rhythms by indirectly influencing a parameter than simply just programming them by hand. You can get pretty wild by patching from one Euclidean generator to another, throw in a logic module, and possibly triggering a reset periodically. You can also use/misuse clock dividers to great effect in the chain somewhere. You can also literally mix gates/triggers together at low volume and where they align you'll get a legit trigger (devices like logic modules want to see a minimum voltage to count a signal as being true, so they are great to add to the end of the analog summing to make sure you get clean gates/triggers).

Hi Lugia,

Thanks for your detailed reply. Unfortunately, it's not what I wanted to hear, so I demand a retraction. How dare you lecture me about some made up "rules" after I put my heart and soul into that theoretical rack?

No, seriously, thank you. Is there a downside to powering the Nebulae with 5V other than needing to keep a separate tally of the power usage? According the the ER-301's website, its peak current is 250 12V+ rather than the 300 listed on MG, which would bring the 12V+ total down to 772. I understand that the consumption listings in MG shouldn't be taken as gospel, but it seems I'm painfully close to being able to safely power this little rack with the supplied power. And I admit, just aesthetically, I'd rather not have two separate "on" switches, even if - especially if - one isn't being used.

But I'm prepared to hear what I don't want to hear.

Thank you,

Tyson

-- tyson

Hi Tyson,

I'm going to include some info that's loosely related to your posts and some that's more on target.

Some modules offer alternative powering solutions and set-ups. For example, modules with vacuum tubes in them may require additional power supplies because of the huge draw from tubes at start-up. Erica has a vacuum tube series that requires a separate "tube warmer" power supply for start-up. I believe they may have solved the issue for later models in the series. But if you see a tube in your gear... you really want to focus on start-up voltage draws. What Lugia said is important.

Digital modules are noisy. It's just a fact of life; especially with modules with display screens. Digital modules are also built to different specifications depending on the builder. You might find people putting digital modules in a separate case or in a corner of their case away from modules that might be more sensitive. Some modules, like those from Noise Engineering, have a toggle switch on the back that allows them to be powered from the 5v bus in order to improve interference.

If you hear the term "passive" it means the module requires no power. A passive mult or a simple attenuator would be examples. Some will work passively, but have "active" portions. The Noise Engineering "Mutis Jovis" is passive four channel mute module, for example. It works passively. But if you plug it in, the LEDs indicating signal level will work.

Hope the information is helpful in some part.

EDITED Nov 15th 2019, 21:08

Hey. My advice:

Delete this post and reformulate it towards your end goal. Post a link to the proposed rack. I realize that this rack will evolve and change as your building it. But there might be some advice that spurs you to make additional tweaks or changes along the way.

Also, take a look at some of the feedback on others racks and take not of the criticisms and why they may or may not be valid.

Looks like a nice list of modules cherry-picked into a rack.

If you wanted to change the polarity of a CV signal... how would you do that with THIS rack?
If you wanted to scale a CV signal, mix two CV signals... again... how would you?

I don't see any traditional ADSRs. Why not?
The Batumi can always use the Poti expander. In a large set-up, it's very much worth the 3HP.
The only dedicated effect is a Chronoblob... if you're doing ambient, where is your reverb?

All in all, this looks like a fantasy build that has very little study behind it. Sorry to be so harsh. But if someone else putting together a rack sees this they should take these comments to heart.

The Rubicon 2 makes sense for a mature rig. For a skiff... I wouldn't think so as getting a nice palette of modulation sources out of skiff would be a bit difficult (sources, attenuation, attenuverting, etc.).

I've managed to get some sounds out of it that put it in league with some of the coarser sounding Noise Engineering stuff. ALSO... it has an LFO mode that can go pretty slow. So you can use it as a source for complex modulation of other oscillators/filters etc.

For me, the value is there due to its usefulness. But the cost rises proportionally. :)

The Dixie II+ is a basic VCO. It really doesn't do much more than any other basic oscillator. It has a sub oscillator, which is a nice feature if you make a lot of bass sounds or a sub factors into the sound of your patch (not always bass).

The Rubicon 2 is more of a complex oscillator due to its "through zero" capabilities among other features. You'll also see that reflected in the price. You can substitute the Rubicon for a Dixie... but not the other way around if you start diving deep into features.

I have the Rubicon 2 and I'm considering the Dixie as an additional VCO... I have a Z3000 but prefer the workflow of the Intellijel stuff.

I'm late. But I have an Intellijel Rubicon II. You can get into some seriously gnarly tones with some creative patching including self-patching. There are a lot of built in attenuators and attenuverters.

It's not cheap. But it's a great first choice for an analog VCO.

I'm not familiar with the Octatrack capabilities. When it comes to sample playback and looping, the majority of in-rack sampling modules do not offer time compression/expansion of samples.

So if you have a drum beat at 120BPM and want to use it in your 125BPM session then you're probably going to have to take it to some software like Ableton to get it to time expand correctly. A lot of Eurorack modules support slicing. But that might make your loop feel janky.

It probably would be a lot cheaper to keep her. If the Octatrack supports sequencing as well, then you might find a MIDI to Eurorack interface and a line to Eurorack level converter (for audio) to be more to your liking. Depending on your interface you could also convert MIDI CC to Eurorack CV and MIDI clock to Eurorack clocks (short gates). MIDI to Eurorack interfaces come in a broad range of capabilities. They can be brutally simple to having a boatload of features and outputs.

But if you want to keep everything in the rack (your decision) then one of the above mentioned Eurorack solutions would work albeit not as well as stand-alone sampler workstation.

I have the BitBox. I also like that it has two alternative firmwares that allow it to be a wavetable synth or a multi-effects box.

The ER-301 and Assimil8or are good choices if price and rackspace aren't an issue.

How fast do the LFOs on the Hermod go and can they be reset or sync'ed?

A second case seems more logical as this rack is pretty much full. I'd find a big-o-rack and keep the Intellijel as maybe a core rack or your performance rack aka the rack where you sequence and control the rest of your system.

Plaits and the Basimilus have their own envelopes. But they are very basic. Your synth voice has its own envelope generator as well. If you're using the O_C as a sequencer, it can output its own envelopes rather than just gates.

I'd put the Pico FX back in else you have a very dry rack. Personally, I'd rather have at least one FX unit rather an extra ADSR in this set-up.

As far as VCOs... or at least oscillators, the rack has a A116, Basimilus, and a Plaits module. The KickAll can also be used as a pitched oscillator in certain circumstances.

For its size. You might be a little heavy on oscillators. But I wouldn't worry too much about that. You can always remove one or more of them and place in other modules that'll fit in the same space. If you don't mind reconfiguring your rack the times you're looking for more functionality and less voices. Just don't do it with the power on and connected.

If the O_C is not getting the job done for your sequencing needs, you can always add an external sequencer.

Well, you have two sequencers. Were it me, I'd get rid of the Metropolis and buy a 1010 Music BitBox. That will give you your drums... up to 16 samples of playback and any loops you might want. The BitBox has four outputs. So you can have a stereo mix, four individual outs, two stereo outs, or whatever you like (such as kick on 1, snare on 2, everything else on 3-4).

The BitBox will also sync to your master clock. So you could sample a loop... like a kick from the Basimilus and then reuse that module for something else.

Also, I only see one VCA. That's going to bite you. It's a combo ADSR and VCA, so that's really going to bite you.

I'd want at least two dedicated ADSRs (like an Intellijel dual ADSR), an LFO module (like a Batumi with Poti expander), as well as at least one Befaco attenuverter, and one 3-4 channel sub-mixer that's DC compatible. If you pull the Metropolis, I'm not sure that you'd have enough space for all of that. Perhaps a smaller main mixer?

Yes, buffered is active. Hope that clears things up.

A switch isn't a mult.

Mults break down into two categories: active or passive.

A passive mult is probably the simplest module in Eurorack. It doesn't require power and splits your signal into two or more outputs. The issue with passive mults is that each additional split robs voltage from the input. That's not a big deal for clocks and gates. But when you're using CV for pitch, there can be a drop in voltage... which will detune and throw off the scale for your CV.

Active or powered mults, are basically distribution amplifiers. They make a copy of the signal at a 1:1 (hopefully) voltage.

Passive mults are less expensive than actives.

The Joranalogue Switch 4 isn't a mult. It's a switch that allows selecting either an input or an output and routing it to a different destination. Depending on the switch it is possible to route one input to multiple outputs simultaneously... but that's going to depend heavily on the design of the switch.

Hey Marcel,

When you're posting your racks. A link to the rack itself should embed it in this thread. When you're asking for recommendations, being able to click on the modules is pretty helpful as no one can be familiar with every module.

Here's your Synth Voice rack. I added quotes and put a space between each slash so it wouldn't end up linking.
"https: //www.modulargrid.net /e /racks /view /1039061"
It looks good for a starter. There's the Disting, which is GREAT as a sampler pack of different functionality you might want to add dedicated modules for. An extra VCA is nice. But I would order it in the second round of purchases as well as your effects.

When you're ready, I'd add a second oscillator and small mixer. A two oscillator synth is much more powerful than one. The Intellijel Dixie II+ would pair well. It also functions as an LFO if you so wish. The Atlantis has a sync input. Sync sounds are always fun. Again... all with a grain of salt because your journey will be about what you wish to explore.

EDITED Oct 31st 2019, 21:22

Before I start... everyone has their own opinions. So take this with a salt-lick grain of salt.

If it were my money and I was starting over again, I would go with the Intellijel Atlantis. It's based on the Roland MS101. It's a complete synth in Eurorack.

The other option is a Behringer Neutron. It's less expensive and doesn't require being mounted in Eurorack and comes with USB and DIN MIDI.

If you outgrow either the Atlantis or the Neutron, the resell value on them is decent.

Well, your second attempt to build a synth will work. But it's a very limited build.

I would suggest one of Intellijel's cases with the 1U row.

Your Cascade module is $100US and offers 3 attenuverters. An Intellijel 1U Quadrat will give you the same functionality with FOUR attenuverters for $80. You can use your Cascade to address 3 CV signals, three audio signals or a combination of both. You'll use them up quickly.

Peaks is a jack-of-all-trades module... but breaks down pretty quickly if you need more than one type of function. For instance if you want TWO envelopes you can only directly control the attack and decay. It's not bad... but it's very limited.

Basically, what you've built is a two oscillator synth that's pretty plain. You'd be better off buying a synth voice module (a module that contains everything you need to produce a basic synth sound). You could even start with a semi modular synth and then add a rack of stuff to it.

Spend some more time in VCV and up your budget. I'd really see if you can find a semi-modular that's compatible with Eurorack as your entry point into Eurorack. You'll have less heartache and start with a complete synth, MIDI interface, etc.

Hey Davidaellis,

I own a MiniBrute 2s and you can patch it to external modules easily using the patchbay indeed. Both VCO1 and VCO2 have outputs you could send to your reverb module. You can return it back using the master or ext inputs, master will mix your input to the final audio signal from the MiniBrute, the ext input will send your signal through the MiniBrute's filter, envelopes, brute factor and everything else, this can be controlled with the ext fader in the VCO1 section.

The MiniBrute's manual is pretty easy to follow and there's a full section on the patchbay, you may want to check it out.

Have fun.
-- Exposure

I would suggest using the "AMP OUT" rather than directly from the VCOs. I don't think you'll want to apply reverb then your filter. The amp-out is going to be at or near the end of the signal chain.

Page 64 of the manual describes the Ext Inputs. It's not very clear, but I think the Ext In Master jack disconnects the synth when a patch cable is present. I would definitely test that. If true, you could create an insert by going from the amp out, to your reverb, and then to the ext in-master. Just not that your signal will return in mono since there's only one input.
http://downloads.arturia.com/products/minibrute-2/manual/minibrute-2_Manual_1_0_EN.pdf

I'm going to reply late to here but something to observe.

The Maths module is capable of doing offsets. So while your VCA knob may be all the way down, you may be leaking an offset into it that prevents it from fully closing.

On your Maths output, be sure to use the direct-out from channel #1 or channel #4 and not the mixer out. Use the output below the black box with the LED in it and not the outputs labeled "1" or "4" or "sum" etc. Then you'll be sure that your VCA fully closes.

This might not be the case... but it might be.

I'm going to reply late to here but something to observe.

The Maths module is capable of doing offsets. So while your VCA knob may be all the way down, you may be leaking an offset into it that prevents it from fully closing.

On your Maths output, be sure to use the direct-out from channel #1 or channel #4 and not the mixer out. Use the output below the black box with the LED in it and not the outputs labeled "1" or "4" or "sum" etc. Then you'll be sure that your VCA fully closes.

This might not be the case... but it might be.

One more for the pile-on.

Creating a small-rack requires a lot of knowledge of Eurorack; more so than creating one that's a total of 208HP for example. Cramming everything that you need into such a small space means knowing exactly what the capabilities of your modules are and having confidence in your set-up to do everything you specifically want.

It's the difference between building a grandfather clock a pocket-watch. The finer details matter a LOT more.

Build a "complete" system, get familiar with Eurorack, then if you want to build a small rack it'll be less of an issue. Building a small rack from the get-go without intimate knowledge of Eurorack is going to mean a lot of wasted money and time.

EDITED Oct 30th 2019, 21:16

This is just a terrible idea from the get-go. To do it right, you're going to need individual mics on each piece of the drum kit. You're going to need a preamp for each mic. You'll probably want a mixer with a minimum of 8 buses to get each drum sound (or stereo pair for overheads) out to your Eurorack. You'll also want a line to Eurorack level module with multiple inputs and outputs... else a bunch of single modules.

Now you have audio going into your Eurorack. If you want to turn your transients to gates, a logic module for each drum sound would be helpful. Once the audio goes above a certain voltage, you'll generate a gate through the logic module... just tap the "or" output. From there you can apply whatever you'd like. Envelope followers were also mentioned. That will generate CV based on the instantaneous amplitude of the signal.

You'll also need a compliment of envelopes, VCAs, or whatever else you're looking to run through.

Honestly, Eurorack isn't the best solution. You'd be better off with a laptop with an 8-in and 8-out interface and software like Ableton. From there you can process, envelope follow, and whatever the heck you want out of your inputs. But using Eurorack is just going to be a cluster with meager results.

Eurorack ain't for everything.

The oLED on the micro ornaments and crime doesn't bother me so much. It's pretty straight forward. You do have to learn a couple of key presses to enter different modes. But the main functionality of the module is pretty straight forward. I've had more problems with digital units that do NOT have any sort of screen but instead have a bizarre amount of button pressing and holding with little to no feedback about the changes I'm making.

Units I have with user interfaces that I hate (and probably will end up selling):
Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4
Expert Sleepers FH2
Monsoon (Clouds clone)
Pittsburgh Modular MicroSequencer
Tip Top Audio QuantiZer

All of which have no graphical display except the Disting, which marginally qualifies.

You're under budgeting in what you need to get started. Don't take this the wrong way. But from what I'm looking at you haven't grasped the concept of control voltages yet.

Planning out a rack without understanding how each module interfaces with the system as a whole will mean a lot of money spent in hopes of a functional system with even more money spent once you begin learning how the ecosystem works.

The concept of an ADSR, for example, is pretty common among all synth platforms. But the HOW of getting an ADSR to work in Eurorack is as important as its use.

Can you run me through how you would create a desirable sound in this set-up and control it? Including the patching? If you can't, then you're building your rack blindly and its going to end up costing you more money or disappointing you.

Get a bigger case if you can afford it. I wouldn't ditch ErbeVerb as it's a really nice reverb.

You can take a Eurorack level audio signal and patch it directly to your Mackie. But the Mackie has to be able to handle the output level. That will depend on the specs of the Mackie input. You may also have to worry about DC voltage leaking into your audio chain and eating up headroom (you can't hear DC and also it's not good for your speakers). Take the output of one of your oscillators and patch it directly into a Mackie input. Make sure the gain on the Mackie is all the way down. A sine wave is great for this. Can you bring up the level of the Mackie to unity without distorting the sine wave?

If you go with a larger case, severa Eurorack to line level modules are available and might be worth the investment, especially if you're using outboard effects that might have an issue with Eurorack level audio.

Also, the Batumi has a Poti 3HP expander for around $60US. It's worth it as it gives you control of features that are only accessible by moving jumpers on the back of the Batumi.

I'd also look into something like a Befaco dual attenuverting module with offsets, a logic module, and something that does sample & hold + noise. You'll get a lot more out of this rig. I think the Disting can do these features, so you might want to try them out and research their potential within your own rig before buying them.

$0.02.

EDITED Oct 25th 2019, 17:38