The Disting Mk4 offers two channels of sample playback and is under $200US. Plus you get all the other features when not playing back samples... just another option.
I went through the modules. You want to sync up with Ableton but the interface you have doesn't seem capable of generating clocks. Perhaps I'm mistaken. Perhaps you might want to consider replacing the A-190 with an Expert Sleepers FH-2? That will give you eight universal outputs you can use for CVs, gates, AND clocks. However it's 2HP larger than what you have... 8HP.
If you can squeeze in the FH2 + 8HP, I would get a micro Ornaments And Crime. It has several different programs that might be useful as well as a dual sequencer that can output control voltages, gates, even envelopes, and sync'ed to clock.
If you're not changing your set-up, I would consider an Expert Sleepers Disting mk4. That'll give you a lot of options as well.
I own the modules I brought up.
Building a polysynth in Eurorack for live performance is a bit of a stretch. Oh and you want to recall presets. That's just not going to happen in Eurorack.
You're better off just buying a true polysynth with wavetables. If you're running Ableton then the cheapest solution is to use a plug-in.
Before buying any physical gear, you may want to explore creating percussion, bass lines, leads, etc. in another format. VCV is a free modular synthesizer simulator. I would recommend exploring that and creating the sounds you're after. VCV is no replacement for the real deal. However, it's a great way to learn.
Once you understand how to make something, you'll do better with evaluating if the Mother 32 and DFAM are right for you. The sounds, the workflow, the features may or may not be what you're looking for in YOUR own music. Eurorack is very expensive in terms of TIME. It takes longer to get the results you're looking for and those results only exist for as long as you keep the patch. If you're willing to accept the candle-in-the-wind limitations of modular and the slow work-pace, you're on the right track. But you have to be the judge of that.
I've been involved with synths and electronic music since around 1990. I'm basically new to modular but not new to the game. From my own personal experience, the one thing I would recommend that you do is to PLAY and PRACTICE. The notion that you're going to jump right in and make something "good" is kind of laughable (personal experience).
I come home from work every other day and create scenarios for myself to patch up. The goal is to become more familiar with my OWN modules and explore features that I might ignore because of habitual patching rather than exploration.
I stopped buying modules for the most part... not because I can't find a use for them but because A) I have no more room in my current case. B) Buying more modules means adding to the stack I'm currently learning.
By learning, I'm not speaking of making basic connections. I'm speaking of using those connections in a way that I personally find musical and expressive.
At this point, I'm not looking to incorporate any of my patches into a song or project. If I hit on anything that's interesting, I might record it into a DAW for later manipulation. But I don't put myself under any pressure to get any value out of my Eurorack at this stage. I keep the humble mentality that I'm learning. I'm making mistakes but fumbling towards a greater understanding.
The other takeaway is that Eurorack play gives me a fresh perspective WITH my DAW. I look at modulation very differently inside the DAW now.
That's my $0.02 to add to Luigi's $10 post. Everyone's journey is different so take it all with a grain of salt... a little lime... and a healthy pour of tequila.
Is the Mutant Brain set to receive in Omni-Mode? (ignores MIDI channel and passes everything it encounters).
I believe this is called "escrow." A third party handles the exchange of merchandise and money... verifying that both parties have satisfied the transaction before releasing monies and merchandise to the recipients. This system of trade does work. But it's much more labor intensive than eBay, etc. The bottom line is that escrow will add more to the cost than eBay.
You might want to do a little research on an "Ornaments & Crime" module and the Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4.
They aren't dedicated modulation modules. But they have LFOs that can themselves be modulated as well as other sources of modulation (sequencing, quantizers, etc.). Each one will be under 300EU, definitely. The O&C gives you more modulation while the Disting has some audio effects (resonators, reverbs, delays, etc.).
What's nice about this type of module is that if you find yourself using a particular aspect of it over and over, you can then make an informed decision if you might want a dedicated module to perform those functions freeing up your original module to perform other functions.
Get the Moog out of your case. HP is expensive and you'll probably add more modules as time goes on. No sense in buying another case or a larger one when your Mother can sit right next to it.
If you don't have a Temps Utile or a Pamela's New Workout, I would suggest getting one. I'm loving my Temps Utile for having six clocks that multiply, divide, or I can just swap that out for a custom sequence, some Eucl., or other rhythmic pattern right inside the module.
Placing your semi-modulars in the rack looks convenient. But you're denying yourself access to future modules. You'll probably find yourself pulling one or both of the Moogs out of the rack eventually.
What are using to mix signals?
Perhaps you might consider an Intellijel 104 7U case? You'll have more room for growth as well as access to the 1U space for mixers (like the Quadratt), noise/slew generators, etc.
If you broke into Detroit Modular and Perfect Circuit and had 3 minutes to grab whatever you could throw in two duffel bags. :)
I started wanting a Behringer Neutron. That was delayed by about six months of waiting. In the mean time, I filled an Intellijel 104 case save 3HP. When the Neutron arrived, I just threw it on the pile.
I find Eurorack is about discovering me. The BIGGEST challenge is discovering the way that )I( work... not my modules. For example, I loath menus and secret button presses (hold this while turning that). Temps Utile, O_C, the Disting, and I have a love hate relationship that's more hate than love. So I probably will progress with more modules that have dedicated functionality and more intuitive interfaces, analog, interfaces.
I see in my future a BitBox Ver 1 for sampling and looping, probably a few TipTop drum modules, uBurst, an Eloquencer, a mixer, a boatload of Joranalogue, and another Intellijel case, inverted so the 1U is at the bottom and I can use Quadrats as modulation controls and submixers.
A precision adder and a logic module might be tasty for generative stuff. You have a quad LFO, so mixing those signals and comparing them could lead to some nice modulation.
Why mute at the Beatstep when you can mute the outputs of your Tip Tops? Void Modular makes a six mono channel mixer with six mutes for $80 in 8HP. I'm sure there are other solutions... some use switches rather than buttons, etc.
Bought a uO_C and a uTemps Utile from @MatrixModulator . Buying custom made stuff can be a little nerving. I had no problems. Great communications. Delivered WITHIN the time frame promised (he finished a couple of days early and shipped early). MM checked and double-checked I that I was getting the modules and panels that I wanted. I'm giving an A+.
The only thing I can even think to mention that I didn't like was that the cables included seemed a little short unless you're plugging in directly over a power supply. I'm using an Intellijel case where the power is under the bottom rails. I swapped the cables out with a couple of units that were closer. On the plus side, he goes the extra mile ensuring that the module won't fry if you plug it in backwards. It will work with the power cable in either orientation.
The bottom line is that he'll be the first person I contact if I need anything else built. I will definitely repeat.
The Wasp is a stylized filter. As long as you have a reasonable expectation of what to expect from it, you're good. You might consider a multi-mode filter. Joranalogue has a really great filter coming out for around $200US or so. It might be a good idea check it out. It's about twice the cost of the Wasp. But I think you'll get a lot more functionality out of it.
I'm assuming that you're going to use the MS-20 for most of your basic needs? Envelopes, LFOs, VCAs? If you're augmenting the the MS-20, perhaps you'll want to think about effects like reverb, delay, etc? Tip Top has a DSP box that seems to be pretty popular. 1010Music also has their BitBox Series 1 that can do looping/sample playback, DSP, basic sequencing. You have to load it with the appropriate firmware to do anything that is in each of the three categories. But you might get a lot of use out of it. The ability to record within your rack could open up creative possibilities when you run out of modules but want to continue with an idea.
Look up Euclidean Rhythm modules. That's great for getting "strange" rhythms going. You might be able to squeeze something in if you go with a smaller clock generator.
There is an alternate firmware for O_C that further divides O_C into two usable modules. I can't recall the name of it but it's out there. You may want to hit the second O_C with that. You may want to go analog with your envelopes, though. I find cycling through menus to adjust a parameter when all I want to do is tweak the release a tad to be a bit tiresome.
Would it be possible to add some more case designs to the rack feature? Perhaps Intellijel will grant permission to use their case lay-out? A virtual Intellijel case would be nice... it's just about the only way to get your hands on one these days anyways. :)
Thanks Dennis! I have big hands so I thought about that when installing. But I tend to set-n-forget the effects or let CV do the work. So the tight squeeze is okay.
I'm probably going to drop the wave-folder out and replace it with a precision adder, a buffered mult, and a Compare Two all from Joranalogue. I should have the spacing to do that. I'll save the wave-folder for the next case. The Disting can handle precision adding for the meantime until the Joranalogue stuff comes out. This is getting expensive. :)
Modulation sources, definitely hands down.
DivKid did a great video on the Vector Space. If I had the space, I'd get one. It should give you some interesting results when combining modulation sources. The Batumi is fine. But I sound like a broken record on the forums when I say to get the Poti along with it. You won't have to fuss with the jumpers on the back if you want LFO shapes like triangles, saws, etc.
If you'll be working with volts per octave, you may want to get a buffered mult and possibly an adder (for accurately summing CV).
Here's the video for the Vector Space.
DivKid did a video on the Batumi. It has four LFOs in it. You might want to get the Poti expander (also shown in the video).
If you're going with Intellijel 7U, get the 104 case. You will eat up module space much faster than you think. Also, be aware that the power supply eats up a lot of room in the lower 3U row. You won't be able to put modules that are very deep in that row.
You might think about replacing the Intellijel MIDI interface with an Expert Sleepers FH2. The built in USB/MIDI connectors on the back of the case are nice. But the FH2 will offer you a better interface with Ableton Live. Plus you can edit your set-up via ES's web interface (optional) and expand the FH2 for even more CVs and gates. Plus the FH2 can do LFOs, arps, and envelopes. They aren't as easy to set-up as a dedicated LFO, ADSR, but they are useful.
In your initial set-up, you'll probably want to add at least one filter, a set of VCAs, and at least one LFO... unless you're going to rely on the Mother-32 for that.
It may be a little early to add the Metropolis until you get some wiggle time in. You can always sequence via MIDI through Ableton to begin with. Maybe a Pittsburgh Micro Sequencer to start with?
The Dixie II is a very vanilla oscillator. Having a third oscillator isn't bad if you're wanting a three voice architecture. I'm not familiar with the Mother-32 architecture itself, so I would ask how do you intend to use this third voice and mix it into the signal flow of the Mother-32?
Once you have that figured out, you may want to go with the Rubicon II if you want to stick with Intellijel. It will give you more options than the Dixie and a ton more in waveforms. Plus it does "thru-zero", which may be something you're interested in.
If you're looking to expand the Mother-32, you may want to consider going for effects and modulation rather than another discrete VCO (unless you plan on modulating with that VCO). You can get some new sounds with the use of wave-folders, complex LFO generators, ring modulators, etc.
As to being a full-time producer, modular is expensive on the bottom-line in both cash and TIME. Playing around with Eurorack to get something you can cook up on a traditional synth isn't a very effective use of time. If you want something special with a bunch of unique modulation, then Eurorack just might be the ticket. But the biggest down-side is that once you pull your patches, they are GONE and can't ever be recreated exactly, even if you remember/document your exact settings.
Okay... that's all my opinion and take it with a grain of salt.
I'm slowly moving into my FH-2. The module is pretty deep as far as features and the web interface is very nice to have. But once you're in the web interface, it hogs the FH-2 as a MIDI device. This means my DAW, Ableton can't communicate with it.
The only viable solution is to only have one open at a time... which takes me out of my creative flow. For example if I want to add another drum part, I have to shut down Ableton, open the web-interface, reconfigure the FH-2 outputs, close the web app, then open Ableton again.
Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I know ES has tinkered with Max4Live before and it's possible now to use SYSEX (one track for in the other for out).
Erica Synths makes a delay that is on my radar. It's digital but has an analog tape mode (pitch shifting) as well as a host of other features like additive looping. SynthDIYGuy did a video on it. It might be an alternative. But it's only available as a DIY and the full kit is 180 Euros.
a lot of that system is over my head. i'm just learning modular, and would never build a stand alone system without at least a keyboard & i don't get into analogue sequencing or complicated patches, i HATE maths! LOL
the one thing i can say about this rack though is shapeshifter rocks! even if i had one, i doubt i'd ever fully understand it, but the things it can do... WOW!
-- bubblefunk
I would suggest a Mordax Data. I'm new too. So I'll often patch a lot of my modulation CVs into the Mordax so I can visualize what's being done with my envelopes, LFOs, Maths (hehe), etc. A lot of times my expectations aren't what's really going on in the signal chain or I've made a mistake or assumption that just isn't carrying water. The visuals give me instant feedback as to where I am versus where I want to be. It's a whole different ballgame than a traditional all-in-one synth. I'm much more efficient using one of those at the moment. I'm learning my particular modules, practicing, and learning their limits and more importantly my limits. I'm no DivKid yet :)
Perfect Circuit has the Rubicon II in stock. Let's feed the addiction. :)
https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/intellijel-rubicon-ii.html
I went with a Rubicon II as well. What ultimately sold me on the Rubicon is that it can function as an LFO as well. I was thinking about all of the crazy waveshapes I could generate then push them into a quantizer or controlling a filter cut-off. I went with a Tip Top Z3000 mkII rather than the Dixie II. In retrospect I might have been happier with the Dixie since it has a switch for controlling the range rather than sweeping through the entire frequency spectrum for dropping/raising the oscillator an octave.
I didn't see the Dixie in your set-up, though.
If you're looking to nick $1000 out of the set-up, how integral are the MakeNoise modules for your initial set-up? You're going to get a wide range of sounds out of the Rubicon.
I would look into buying a complete synth voice: Intellijel, Pittsburgh, and many other manufacturers offer them. Most of them are completely patchable between each individual component. They'll include one or two VCOs, a filter, a VCA... and maybe some other goodies. Once you have that, you might want to think about sequencing. How do you intend to trigger notes and modulation?
Price per HP doesn't seem to correlate to the value of the module for me. My first criteria is the performance. I'll often view multiple Youtube videos of the module in action to get a feel for the module: quality of sound, modulation, etc. The second would be features. If I have multiple ways to use a module that adds value to it.
I was shopping for a small quantizer due to limited HP space. I have 3 to spare. The toss-up was between a 2HP quantizer and the Erica Quants. The 2HP has more LEDs to indicate status. However, after diving in a little further, the Erica can generate a trigger each time it outputs a new pitch if there's nothing plugged into the clock input. The 2HP doesn't have that feature. With that, I can trigger an envelope based on the internal logic of the Erica... or some other event. That seals the deal for me. I get more value out of the Erica even if the price is a little more.
You'll spend thousands on modules. Each new module integrates with the others, so being frugal on one module might hamstring the value you get out the rest of the system.
I'm not knocking the price per HP system. But I'm thinking of the system as a whole rather than just a collection of individual modules. Cheers.
LOL... Title corrected to 104. I moved the Tiptop Fold to the end because I don't use it that often. I wanted my VCAs a little closer. I can use long cables to get in and out of it when I want it. I had to take some consideration because the depth of the Intellijel case in the lowest row sits right above the power supply. So only really shallow modules work there. If the legs on the case were reversable, I'd flip the case upside down. Thanks for the comment! Appreciated.
I looked and all three devices have MIDI in. You can buy a MIDI splitter and drive all three from one MIDI source, just set each synth to a separate MIDI channel (1-16).
At this point, you may want to consider using a DAW. If you get a USB audio interface with four inputs and a MIDI jack and inexpensive software like Reaper, you can manage your sequences in your computer as well as record/mix/add effects as well.
Just an option.
I've been in the synth world since 1990. This is my first Eurorack.
With exception of the Erica Quantizer, all modules have been purchased and only four are still on order (O_C, Tempes, Noise Tools, Pittsburgh Sequencer).
Please beat this rack to a bloody pulp. All criticism are welcomed. I will probably expand into another 108 Intellijel case within a year... oh Eurocrack addiction. My logic is a high-low approach. For example, I have a "simple" oscillator and filter, and then a more complicated one. I have a few multi-use modules, but any function I plan on using a lot is duplicated by a dedicated module as well. I haven't made use of the FH2 yet. I want to stay inside the case as much as possible as I'm learning my way around and experimenting.
The modules I am willing to pull from the case and set-aside for the next case are the Fold Processor, and pretty much all of the 3U Intellijel stuff.
I have about 50 or so patch cables with a healthy amount of them being stackables.
The Batumi has an add-on module called the Poti. It allows you to instantly switch modes of operation such as the assignable waveshapes as well as sync modes. This can be done without the add-on by pulling the module and adjusting the jumpers. It looks like your rack is full. But if you can swap out something like the Intellijel ADSR for something slimmer and rearrange your modules, you can sneak the Poti in... maybe above the Batumi.
I own both.
