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Thanks Ronin. I really wanted to like the Grandmother when it came out because of the price point and patchability. Some demos sounded pretty good, but when I got a chance to tinker with one here locally, I just didn't care for it. Some of it was very specific things, like the filter behaves very different than other ladder filters and it was harder to find the sweet spots in it, but mostly just didn't care for the rawer sound. I prefer the Sub Phatty / Sub 37 smoothness, even if darker and more subdued. The M32 is its own thing but closer to the Sub line than anything, to my ears. Presets are nice, polyphony not an expectation for me. If the CV equipped version of the Sub 37 is within my reach that might be the best bet.

You raise an interesting point about line level. Clouds has a gain input so you can adjust incoming audio; I suppose I can see how far that will get me first though.

I am thinking thru changing to a small Eurorack setup, mainly for effects or modulation downstream of a standalone synth. Sounds like blasphemy for some here I imagine, but hear me out....
I have a Mother 32 and been exploring that over a year. Built a 6U 84 HP case and bought uZeus power, added another VCO, a Doepfer ADSR and a VCA since the M32 is limited in this regard, bought a MI Tides and an MI Clouds, an x4 attenuator. Before adding more and going further down the financial black hole, I had an epiphany that I liked the core Moog sound of the M32 but would probably just be as happy with a monosynth with lots of 'tweakability' like the Moog Sub 37 and some effects downstream. Patching a bunch of modules and getting some wacky sounds was fun at times but was frustratingly tedious when I wanted to just "play".
I sold off a lot of my modules. M32 will probably leave but still have for time being. I plan on keeping the Clouds, Tides, and x4 attenuator within a single 84HP rack. I think the next order of business is adding a random source like the WoggleBug to get some randomness going while modulating the Clouds. I have stompbox delay and reverb in my guitar rig that I use currently, but I might want to add some dedicated Eurorack modules to keep my guitar and synth stuff completely separate. Granular stuff like the Phonogene and the Nebulae seem very interesting to me. Has anyone else gone this route - essentially using Eurorack for effects with a standalone synth (and not a "semi-modular" synth)? I'd love some ideas or thoughts on what others have done.

EDITED Jul 19th 2019, 15:24

You definitely need some envelopes. Consider at least a dual ADSR, or a module with multiple AD envelopes.

The Pluck is a bit redundant, as there is really nothing it can do that the Rings doesn't already do (unless you had in mind using two Karplus Strong type voices simultaneously but that would require more complex sequencing).

The Elements is capable of a wide palette of sounds not possible with standard VCO / VCF / VCA flow, but the resonator portion of it is already there in the Rings module. Unless you really want / need the odd sounds Elements can make...... you might find yourself just using the Rings for the resonator when not using it as a voice on its own.

I'm sure more experienced people might have additional thoughts but those were the obvious observations to me.

EDITED May 13th 2019, 13:07

Jumping Flash, as cool as a looping delay with control over CV module is..... you can get a lot of mileage out of guitar stompbox delays for a lot less money and also save space in the rack. I've owned many, and use a Source Audio Nemesis at the moment, but there are dozen affordable ones I could make use of just the same. Analog delays (EHX Memory Man and Memory Boy for example) are great and can be a bit more organic sounding, but I find digital emulations are less noisy.

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/screenshots/rack655881.jpg?ts=1554469333

There. Moved some stuff around and added a dual AD envelope. While I think Noise Reap has stopped making those, I am sure I can find others in the same size or smaller.

Thanks Lugia, that makes sense. I had thought of contouring if it was audio info but had not thought of it for CV signals. I can likely pull the 4hp mult and replace with a dual AR generator.

EDITED Apr 4th 2019, 19:29

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/screenshots/rack655881.jpg?ts=1554320228

Looking for tweaks or hacks on the rack above, which is my medium range plan.
I currently have: The uZues, Mother 32, Doepfer ADSR, MA VCA, Mult, Mino VCO, Clouds, and Tides.
I know I can take the M32 out of the eurorack case for more room but I like it being self-contained and more portable. I'd probably get a bigger case if this all went beyond 6U 84P, and that is ok. I already have outboard reverb and delays that don't live in the rack. As far as the purpose or goal off this rack - I generally like making interesting lead and fx sounds, definitely on the more ambient / softer edged spectrum. Sometimes when using it as part of a larger music project, I am sending Midi from my DAW to the M32, other times when exploring I use the M32's sequencer or even just play the small rubber keys. I might add a Keystep at some point though.

• The Music Thing Turing appeals to me for the knob per function usability, and while random, it repeats phrases with the degree of change over time being controllable, and very easily. I like that, since I envision it mostly running into the TUNE quantizer for scale based melody generation.
• Instead of adding a second random source to modulate parameters on Clouds (and eventually Rings), my thought was using existing LFO outputs from the Mother 32 into the 2HP dual Sample and Hold to create random CV, fed thru attenuator, achieving seeming randomness that is not so different as adding a Wogglebug, etc
• I'm pretty fuzzy on clock dividers / multipliers, but I am assuming I can use the 4ms divider to open the x3 VCA at determined intervals to control modulations of other modules and help create patches that softly glitch or evolve over time.

I have really tried to avoid modules with menu diving. The MI stuff with push buttons to change modes is about as complex it gets, and that is intentional. I feel a bit over my head though.

EDITED Apr 5th 2019, 12:43

Clouds is actually more affordable than ever, since it was so popular that many good builders sell their own builds on Reverb. That said, I have been exploring my Clouds for a bit and learned that without other sources to modulate / effect the individual parameters, it is a bit underwhelming. Random cv generators, LFO or function generators, combined with attenuator to control the amount of modulation over the different parameters on Clouds are what really open that module up.

PS. I dig the name of your build.

EDITED Mar 18th 2019, 20:41

Thank you! That helps. Yes, its a fairly small rack so I like the idea of being able to use the Tides to modulate multiple things simultaneously and sounds like the new version is more capable of that.

The chords mode seemed to be what people focused on since that's completely new, but not as likely for me to use.

Nobody? bump

The Bermuda VCO is not currently available direct from NoiseReap, but they sometimes come up for sale on Reverb. I have a Noise Reap Mino, which is very similar but with no self-mod feature, except it has 4 simultaneous wave types so a good utility VCO to have. The sine wave is nice and clean, and it has a pretty nice sawtooth that's not all that different from my Moog Mother 32.

EDITED Jan 11th 2019, 16:48

Pardon my ignorance, but how does the output of a modular setup differ from the output of a normal hardware monosynth? People have been plugging those straight into audio interfaces in home studios for as long as digital conversion has been with us, and you just watch your levels since its obviously much hotter than other sources (like a dynamic microphone or a bass guitar).
Some electronic artists even run their synths thru outboard preamps just for punch / warmth / grit in the studio, even though amplification is not needed and that could probably compound the problem of a really hot signal.

EDITED Jan 3rd 2019, 15:14

So MI has re-launched the Tides module with some subtle changes / updates, the biggest change are the 4 outputs. Anyone have any hands on experience with the new one, or potentially BOTH versions to comment on it?

From just reading descriptions and watching a couple Youtube videos - I am having trouble understanding what is possible with the 4 outputs now that was not possible before. Its also hard to tell if the expanded output capability really just applies when using it as a sound source, or also when used as a modulation source.

I was considering adding a Tides to my small but growing rack for super slow, evolving type modulation, but now I am torn on if I should hold out for a new one or buy the original used for $100 less.

EDITED Jan 3rd 2019, 13:52

My modular consists of just a Mother 32, a second VCO, and some utility modules at the moment, but it is growing. Take my opinion as one of a beginner, but I've had the M32 for a bit now.

I agree with everyone above that for what you get function wise, the Mother 32 is compact and very affordable so its a great jumping off point. You could barely afford a good Moog type filter and VCO for what the M32 costs, let alone the other modules you would need to get rolling. I've had a couple of frustrations though: For lead sounds, the AD envelope with sustain switch is pretty limited for shaping (and since you have a Sub37 I assume that might be important). Adding an envelope means adding another VCA since you can't truly bypass the M32's envelope's affect on the internal VCA. Also, want to add another VCO and hard sync? Well, you can add VCO's easily, but you can't sync them with the M32 which would be nice for tighter bass sounds.

These are nitpicky things, and I really love the sound of the M32's VCO and filter, and being able to rack it with other gear is nice..... but makes me wonder if the Moog Grandmother might be a better intro into modular these days since it is a definitely more "complete" of a monosynth already before you start interacting other gear with it.

Good points, and an interesting patch idea.... for much further down the road. I might be using the word "generative" in its most generic or basic way, versus a much deeper definition that modular guys would, and maybe there is a better word to carry my point. Creating a big self-playing patch that evolves over time might be a real "stretch goal", but the more immediate goal is to break away from meticulously writing / sequencing everything and inject some randomness.

I approach Eurorack much like a regular hardware synth. Make some bass sounds, leads, modulated fx sounds. I use a DAW when I write or am working on ideas. I capture any melodic ideas in MIDI as they come, which I can then run thru synths and effects to experiment. However, I want to incorporate some randomisation and see where some generative melody experimentation can take me, even if I want to stay within key or the particular "mode", music theory wise.

I have looked at the following:
- 2HP Rdm, followed by a 2hp Tune (quantizer) seems like a bare bones way to do this.
- The Music Thing Modular Turing Machine seems to have a little more functionality, though it would still need a quantizer (I believe). I like that it can vary its randomness over time, and you can freeze or lock a pattern. Seems user friendly.
- The Ornament and Crime seems like it can do what the above do, plus a million other things (which is why it seems a bit daunting to just dive into). Trying to even read and understand what exactly the O&C actually DOES is intimidating.

Any other options I should consider? Size / cost / functionality all matter, but being intuitive to use seems pretty important too. I know it if it is super complex, I am just going to struggle with it versus get inspired.

EDITED Sep 7th 2018, 18:20

I'm a noob myself, but on a similar path / starting point so thought I would chime in. I wanted to build a modular system to get a lot of standard vintage lead and bass sounds and have a lot of control, but then also get really crazy with heavily modulated / textural sounds too.

Of the above rack, I have the Mother 32 and the Blue Lantern Looping Envelope so far, and the rest is just a bare bones plan for future purchases. For lead sounds, having a true fully adjustable ADSR gives you more control than the limited envelope generator the M32 has. Plus, since I want to do some ambient / layered / textural stuff, having a looping envelope with CV input free to modulate things other than the VCA will definitely come in handy.
A second utility VCO, with sine and triangle waves, gives waveforms the M32 doesn't have already. A clean sine wave is often the starting point for ambient sounds.
A "pluck" sound source like Mutable Instruments Rings, or the 2HP Pluck is a popular sound that works well in rhythmic ambient stuff.
The Tides is on my list mainly for the variety of LFO waveforms possible, since it can help create some slow, evolving modulated patches, though there are tons of LFOs to choose from, many with CV control.
Some variant of Clouds is a definite for my planned rack, to mangle and stretch sounds.
Effects like delay and reverb are important if you want to go down the ambient road. I don't have any here because I have that all outboard already.
I actually had a Korg Minilogue and sold it to help fund starting a Modular. Most of the stuff it did that I liked, like brassy pad sounds, can be done so easily in a softsynth like Korg's Mono/Poly vst that's available for $50. I don't miss it that much, especially for leads and arpeggios.

EDITED Aug 27th 2018, 13:36

Thanks. I did check out Ladik and they have a couple output modules with 1/4" outs. I almost bought a dual one for about $45 US, then realized I was overthinking it, and I found a 10' cable with 3.5mm to 1/4" on Amazon for under 10 bucks. If I run stereo outs from my modular in the future as it grows, then I'll likely pick up a Ladik dual output or even the Rosie since it has crossfade.

EDITED Aug 11th 2018, 21:43

I bought a Mother 32. Love it. I used the 1/4" output to run into my guitar pedal board, then into my interface (I use stereo outs from my Eventide Space reverb into both channels of it) to record into DAW. I get a clean signal with no detectable distortion, and have plenty of headroom.
Now that I have mounted the Mother 32 into a larger powered case and am adding other modules, I am going to have to use the 3.5mm VCA output to get signal out, which seems like a pain. It seems that I will need to use one of those cheap flimsy 3.5mm to 1/4 adapters, or have a dedicated module with 1/4 output like the MakeNoise Rosie, which I suppose could add some other functionality I might eventually use like the FX loop and crossfade, but seems like overkill. Are there other options though? What do most people do to get their 3.5mm outputs into a mixer or interface, since 1/4" or XLR inputs are standard?

EDITED Aug 10th 2018, 17:06

What's really the difference sound wise to create a paraphonic synth by running multiple VCO's all into the same VCF, VCA, EG versus "true" polyphony?
-- goodbyebluesky82

If you want a setting for each note, like a filter sweep, there is a huge difference. In polyphony you get a sweep for each note, in no way affected by the trigger of a new note. In paraphony the sweep of the first not will restart when you trigger a new note.

-- sislte

I'm primarily a guitarist / drummer who started dabbling in synth, not a keyboard player, and therefore play very basic things, so that didn't occur to me but makes sense now. For very simple chords / pads, I still don't think it would be an issue, but I could see that being a problem for bigger chords / pads where you are adding and releasing notes while keeping some notes sustained simultaneously.

What's really the difference sound wise to create a paraphonic synth by running multiple VCO's all into the same VCF, VCA, EG versus "true" polyphony though? With some affordable VCO/DCOs and a MIDI to CV converter capable of routing the various CV inputs to the VCO/DCOs; it seems very doable in modular, especially compared to the massive rigs with expensive digital modules people put together without complaining too much of the cost and complex patching.

I would think tuning / calibrating it might be a pain, kind of akin to playing that guitar you keep lying around but can never quite get in tune with itself 100%.

Thanks.
What has steered me toward even considering modular in the first place is that while I love the sound of various hardware synths, they all seem to paint you into a corner. I liked my Minibrute for what it was but grew to want a different filter and snappier envelopes, which made me think I would be happier with a Moog Little Phatty or Sub Phatty. After demo'ing a Sub Phatty I realized it scratched an itch, but it would limit me in it's own way too in short time.
I'm always drenching synth sounds in delay and reverb or looking for other means to try and create layered ambient sounds, so when I heard some of the stuff people were doing with Mutable Instruments modules that can't be done at all on existing fixed architecture synths - then it felt right.
I might scale back my ambitions, get the Mother 32, an extra VCO, and the Rings - then think harder about what's actually missing. I'll likely need time for my wallet to catch up anyway.

EDITED May 3rd 2018, 18:04

Cool, thanks!

The Jupiter filter is a little spendy, even compared to the SE 8106 which seems to get some rave reviews. I've never played with hardware Jupiters to care about total accuracy. Will have to try and find some demos online to see if it sounds good enough to sway me.
I had not really thought about syncing VCOs since I often didn't bother with it in hardware synths I've had. Guess I assumed I would just stack a dissimilar saw wave VCO with the Mother's saw wave and patch thru a different filter for Roland-ish tones. The Klavis VCOs seem pretty deep, likely deeper than I was aiming for. What about Roland's System 500 dual VCO? That would be more affordable than two Klavis and they have sync capability. Most of the demos I have found sounded like farting sound noise, not very musical, so it was hard to gauge it's potential.
I like that triple LFO, seems a lot of versatility in small space.
You're talking over my head a bit about the triple band pass filter and modulating it with LFO. Am I correct to think of that sutble (or sometimes not subtle) whooshing or sweeping sound I sometimes hear in a lot of OBX and Jupiter poly sounds? If so that is intriguing. I was thinking this would stay a monosynth only modular setup but I could likely use that sound even in some lead and fx patches for sure.
Is the multi module necessary to send CV pitch to multiple devices from the Mother?

EDITED May 2nd 2018, 16:07

I am looking to put together a modular trying to chase 3 things:
1) Some basic Moog type sounds (I know not exciting, but I don't have a fixed architecture Moog-ish mono synth)
2) Some juicy Roland filter type action for Juno / Jupiter leaning lead sounds as well.
3) Some ambient / textural string type sounds.

I am thinking the following to start:
- Mother 32 as a base. It has great saw wave and VCF (to my ears). I have tried but can't figure out a VCO, VCA, VCF combo for as cheap as I can pick up a Mother 32 so I keep coming back to that. The sequencer and basic LFO are just a bonus, plus I get the MIDI to CV without spending money on a separate converter.
- Studio Electronics 8106. Adds some variety and juicy Roland type filter as an alternative to the ladder filter of the Mother 32.
- A basic ADSR since the Mother 32 lacks it, and I really like a good bit of release in string type and lead sounds. The Noise Reap Dopes unit is cheap and comes in a visually cool black, with the ability to be dual AD envelope generators which = versatility.
- Mutable Rings. Self-explanatory, but mainly to be a processor / sound mangler for drawing out string like resonance from otherwise normal synth patches. I'm definitely sold on this as an important part of the rack.
- Mutable Tides. I'm on the fence about this one. Thinking maybe it could help to get longer evolving textural sounds by using the looping, and it seems to cover multiple things. The wave folder seems to hold interesting potential.
- I think I will need another basic VCO, something with at least triangle and saw, since stacked saw waves for detuned sounds are cool, and also since the Mother 32 lacks triangle altogether. The Studio Electronics Slim-O looks like a possibility but at $200, I know there have to be other options that sound as good or bring something interesting.
- I will probably want to add a more elaborate LFO later.
What else am I missing? Is there any module I should consider that maybe covers multiple bases for ultimately versatility??

I will be mainly playing via a MIDI keyboard and sequencing in my DAW both. I have effects like stereo delay and reverb covered well with my existing guitar pedal board. I have a homemade 84HP case, with the ability to expand it to dual 84HP by buying more Z rails, so I am limited by money overall more than thinking of myself as limited by case size.