I thought you wanted people to engage with you. I'm the only one still willing to do so, and I've been as reasonable as anyone could be about all this. If you don't want to talk to me, that's fine, but if you don't like what I've said then there might not be a point for you in coming here to engage, especially if you continue to be combative about any advice that conflicts with your idealized version of modular synths.
If you are careful and follow advice from those with experience, you should be able to get a good modular system for less than $36,000.
I think if you apply the same attitude you applied to yoyos here and get engaged with the actual materials, you will do better.
If you had said somewhere in your early 20s, I would be more optimistic about you outgrowing this disposition and learning to be more patient when taking on a new hobby.
i think people just need this site to provide them a gentle reminder about how to think about using this very site. etcetera.
-- singular_sound
I definitely agree that there are people who need (at the very least) a gentle reminder about how to approach using this site.
You might need to read some books/posts, watch some tutorials, and also get more familiar with the materials themselves. This will help you understand the onboarding process better, and if you don't find this resource at the end of your research, then you'll have everything you need to create it. For now, I'm not sure you'd know which of these resources are the right one even if you found it, because you haven't done the thing for which you're trying to create and evaluate learning tools. Having a plan and overall goal is good, but you still have to start at the beginning and go through it all step by step.
have you read zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance @Dub007 ? that is the book i was trying to reference. if you have not, you might not grok what i have in mind, etc. ...
peace ✌️
-- singular_sound
You mean a piece of pop philosophy from an author who themselves claimed the book was not really an accurate take on either "zen" or "motorcycles", the two things it was ostensibly about? I'm not even inherently against such a project for music gear and modular synths in particular, but who would such a resource be for? Why would it be Modulargrid that provides it?
zacksname, i have just one thing to say:
https://poorlydrawnlines.com/comic/taking-criticism/
-- singular_sound
I get the feeling you will have more than this to say.
If you want to flex your creativity, play some music. If you need help with something, ask. If you just want to chat, maybe see if there are any Discords you can join or go on Modwiggler. In my experience, conversation here seems to be limited to people posting music or asking specific questions. If you already have "very specific taste", you might not need to share your ideas before you start working on them anyway. Frankly, your behavior here is pretty alienating and will not turn this place into a great place to make friends. Being a good listener and taking the feedback you asked for well even if it doesn't necessarily fit your goals will work much better.
And we don't want to limit our responses to just the ones you want.
I feel like I get the general direction of your satire, but without identifying a real issue and purpose it just lacks a certain bite and effectiveness.
I think making contributions based on your experience with a studio that isn't going to exist is probably limiting your ability to get engagement with people on a website about things that (mostly) do exist or will in the future.
If you have too much time on an Android phone and want to learn modular synthesis, you should try a free app called Hexen. That way you can actually build patches and work on ideas.
I will give you credit: I enjoyed the fact that this is your rack where the joke was about having too much random modulation and too many utilities, yet it still has too many voices. I actually laughed out loud a little. I think that officially makes me a nerd.
Your link is weird, but I assume you mean the "(Current)" one.
An LFO module of some kind (Ochd, Batumi, or whatever seems fun to you)? Maybe even a spring reverb for that classic Easel sound. It's hard to go wrong here. Maybe even a filter if you want to expand your palette beyond traditional Buchla sounds while keeping things fairly simple and focused.
I would rank my suggestions here in the order they appear in terms of relevance/usefulness.
I suggest keeping the ring modulator, too. They sound great with the 258t sine waves and it can also act as a bipolar VCA.
Are you still having AI help out with these?
I think we are both having trouble wrapping our heads around an instrument that doesn't exist yet. It's hard to get a sense of something's "flow" before it starts flowing. The best partner for brainstorming is the modules themselves. Especially when you have a very specific idea of what you want that no one seems to understand. You might just need to start.
What do you mean by "generate a kit from pure menus"?
Let me know if there are any questions. I probably wouldn't keep them in this arrangement, though. These are just the module ideas. Only you will know when you have synergy with your modular system, and you won't really know until you're playing it.
This is my general suggestion. A few tweaks here and there, plus some utilities, and the overall concept works fine. Some of the really big modules are questionable, but I also have really big modules and love them, so I won't bother questioning it. If you have any questions, I can answer them, but I do think every module type included here is necessary to make this work as you intend.
Also, I made it 104hp. 104hp is easy to get. 100hp is not easy to get. You'll pretty much have to make it yourself. Why torture yourself to have less space?
edit: The thumbnail doesn't seem to want to work properly. Just click on it and the rack should appear normally.
You have been given an insane amount of startup advice for Eurorack over the time you have been posting on this site. You should definitely go back and read what was said by multiple people then, because that was the information about how to get started in modular that you are claiming does not exist.
Of the stuff you mentioned, the Neo-Trinity seems like the best call.
An Ochd would probably make this work better, too. Another solid option would be attenuverters.
I can't say the Pizza is good for this rack, but I do love it and its different firmwares.
The filter suggestion is (for me, at least) not so much about a filtering effect added to the final product as it is about articulating the sound of an oscillator by sending it through a closed voltage-controlled filter and then opening it using a envelope that you've triggered. It's the same subtractive synthesis thing that drives more basic synthesizers, but I think even in this noisier, seemingly more unrestrained setup it will allow you to get lots of tonal and rhythmic variety out of your setup.
You'll also be able to do this with one of your VCAs, and exploring an envelope/function generator will probably do you more good first, but a good filter just gives it extra shape and character. Not only will be a great source of sounds (especially if it self-oscillates), but it will improve your experience with the Doepfer A-110 or whatever other sound source you decide on.
So...you want to add another sound source to this?
I also tend to make a lot of noisy distorted stuff that isn't necessarily traditional synth sounds, but you need some articulation and modulation in here. A quality filter (100 Grit and Angle Grinder would both work for what you want while still doing filtering, and based on what you have so far they are good picks, but there are others) and an envelope/function generator (the more the merrier – a Mutable Peaks clone might be good for function vs space, but just look around and see what looks good) would go a long way towards making this much more versatile.
That Mazzatron module doesn't need any power and you won't need to play around with it much when it is set up. I can't help but think your best bet is to not rack it, but just kinda have it out on its own so it doesn't get pulled on due to being in a fixed position. You can always cover the sides with something if you're worried about that.
Since you have ths FX Aid, you may also like Happy Nerding's 3xMIA and 3xVCA. If a matrix mixer (which is actually a great tool in Eurorack because you can use it to mix, route, and reroute CV for lots of detailed transitions) is too big to fit in, this may also give you some good modulation mixing/changing options. For the 3xVCA, one thing I like other than the attenuator for the input CV is the switches you can use to send the output of a channel to the next channel, allowing you to easily multiply or mix signals together at the literal flick of a switch. Simple utilities, but super playable and really useful.
Generally, I would agree with the person above on a Keystep or Beatstep Pro for doing 2-3 voices plus drums/event triggering/etc.
If you like the Ground Control, it does have the advantage of being a standalone unit with its own power supply amd case, as well as the power supply for at least a single rack of modules for if you get another case (up to 1A of +12 and 700 mA of -12, though you'd want to avoid going over about 70-80% of that to avoid harm from voltage spikes or modules that need more power to load up and start) and take it out to be racked. It is very expensive, so definitely look around to see what else is out there and if it is worth it. There are also more elaborate programming-based options like the Hermod (the original is very cheap used nowadays) and the Hermod+, or my beloved Nerdseq, but you're not quite there yet based on what you have here.
You can make ambient with this if you add effects to it (this is true of basically anything). Personally, I think fitting effects into this rack would be a bit much, and it looks like you agree with me so far. There are lots of good standalone effects units with CV ins and outs, so unless you see a specific module that speaks to you and does something that can't be replicated with a standalone device like the Zoia Euroburo, Poly Hector, Alter X and Y, Gamechanger Audio AUTO series etc., I would be wary of giving your rack space to that.
You may want a more versatile oscillator like Plaits, or the new MCO from ALM, or even a sample-based sound source for that, but the STO will work fine as well for simple sounds. As you say, a second smaller oscillator for FM tones probably will help you more there than the second filter, but that is up to you. Intellijel's Dixie II+ oscillator is a good and popular choice because it is small, powerful, has lots of functions, and can switch between LFO and VCO comfortably.
I think the dual ADSR is fine here if you like it and enjoy playing with it. Changing your envelope as you play is good for musical variations. You may also consider adding a Mutable Peaks clone (check out the original and Dead Man's Catch firmwares and you'll see how helpful this particular "envelope/LFO generator/percussion machine" can be in a small setup). If that's too digital for your tastes, an ALM Pip Slope or a couple well spread out Erica Synths Pico EGs could let you have both the big dual ADSR and a couple spare envelopes with less manual-reading. Modules that can be switched from envelope to LFO easily are great for unique modulation and making changes while jamming.
Of course, you should look into all of these and make sure I haven't missed anything or suggested something that will take you off course. You'll know better than me when it's right
I guess I would choose the bigger one, then. If I decided later that I didn't need all the modules, I could just not use the ones I don't need.
I am at an early stage and don't yet know what genre of music I'll be making or what the recording process will be.
-- ModLifeCrisis
I think you have to figure this out first. What kind of music/sounds normally come out of your modular experiments?
found the underwuridz second hand... but was again unsure, thought some glitch sounds could be fun. but again, I'm new and dumb so non attached, but willing to learn! 🤣
-- mantraflow
If you found it and you like it, I say go for it if it's what you want. If you do, you should take some videos of it in action - I've never seen it before, though I've admired some of the module concepts from that company (like the Bluetooth receiver with envelope follower).
I think the Maths and Wogglebug are good for a setup like this. The Ochd+expander you have in the new configuration is a good choice - you can also feedback it by plugging the various outputs back into the CV control input for more varied and unpredictable LFOs. Since Maths gives you two attenuators already in addition to its other goodies, VCAs are probably the way to go here. In a small system, VCAs with knobs are the most convenient. The classic is the Intellijel Quad VCA or Mutable Veils (discontinued, but After Later Audio makes a clone called Cloaks, as do other companies). Omnitone makes a quad VCA called Ampera that is smaller if you need the space. I wouldn't worry about finding a special VCA with special audio character, because those ones are said to sound good already and you'll want them more for CV here. Just go for value and control capabilities. The main thing here is just to get control over more signals and more aspects of signals.
I did up this just so I could keep track of everything. I put Ghost in instead of the other effects unit because the other one appears to be currently unavailable in Eurorack or standalone format, but you can always find another effect or multieffect that suits you (or track that one down if you need it). One thing I see around a lot is the Folktek Alter X and Y pedals, which are more like Eurorack modules in pedal form with CV control, and offer similarly grimy and potentially experimental (yet varied and tameable) effects like that other unit. That might free up some space for you to add more utility/modulation or maybe even squeeze a second small signal path in there (or expand your current one).
These are all just guidelines, and I imagine you'll want to go over all these things and check out the alternatives. Hopefully that helps. Your sound sources/effects are obviously the most personal part, but as you play around with stuff you'll get a lot more confident with all the other pieces and knowing what suits you. Don't be afraid to test ideas in VCV Rack as well. You won't be able to use all the same modules, but some are available and the concepts are all still the same. Multifunction modules like Ornament and Crime, the Distings, or the Empress Euroburo/Poly Hector (the latter two can exist in their own cases) are also great ways to experiment with new and interesting functions in a relatively small setup.
The "clutter" comments aren't about having too many things, but about having an imbalanced setup and impractical module arrangements that would make your setup almost impossible to get results from unless they were just harsh noise or pure drones. A single row can be cluttered and cramped while a giant setup can be balanced and user-friendly.
For this size, the Loki is probably a good start. The Spherical Wavetable Navigator does a lot of stuff, but it also demands a lot of stuff to fully maximize its complexity.
Overall, it looks like a good start to me. That mult is surprisingly big, but if you have the room and can get a good deal on it, that's fine.
You'll probably be a lot happier if you ditch one of the oscillators and one of the effects units to get yourself a filter outside of Ghost (nothing against Ghost but you need a filter or low pass gate that acts like a synth filter and isn't meshed in with the other effects), a bit more modulation (LFOs), and a VCA/attenuator for CV. Maybe a mult/mixer as well. The craziness you get from a patch on a system full of utilities like these will be a lot more varied and playable.
Just my suggestion. More sound sources/effects doesn't necessarily mean more sounds in Eurorack.
Be sure to post some examples when you finally buy this stuff and get going. I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Don't be afraid to look at a complete synth voice to start with as well. Eurorack has lots of really interesting options for things that basically could run standalone in a limited fashion, and then you just add a module or two as you go along. A Moog Mavis or a Quadrantid Swarm (just two of many options) will work out of the box and even have their own case, though they can still be racked after.
There are also lots of sound-making modules with their own built in VCAs or filters. All sorts of varieties: Plaits, 4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator, Befaco Oneroi, Gamechanger Plasma Voice. You could pretty easily start with these and 2-3 other things (the A-143-2 and Pam's or the Mimetic) and already have a fully functioning system as long as you have something to plug it into that can take the signal.
I also feel like the Niftycase is worth a mention. It gives you 3U, 84hp with power, MIDI for up to two tracks of CV/Gate (or 5 triggers/gates depending on what you need), and a quarter inch output with two inputs. The price is very reasonable. Those cases you looked at seem nice, but if you're worried about cost and value for money, Niftycase is a potential alternative and the whole package costs about as much as most MIDI to CV modules do on their own.
What's the concept?
I think you should just buy it. The rack itself is so much easier to bounce ideas off of than any individual will be.
The main thing Eurorack will offer instead is unique experiences. AE Modular seems to have some great stuff, but it is ultimately fairly traditional synthesis without much variety in concept and interface. Not a bad thing at all (focused systems are productive systems) but different. You should probably start by looking at some unique sound sources/oscillators and a unique filter/VCA/low pass gate or other way of articulating the sound. I can't really be too specific here – this is a personal choice that will make your system yours. Maybe a unique sequencing system, as well. Something that feels malleable and musical like what you want, but operates in a more hands-on or abstract way to program a sequence (like the Mimetic). You can also use the Polyend Tracker in combination with a MIDI converter so that while the Mimetic or your other modular stuff (quantizers plus modulation are a great trick for this) actually does the sequencing and you can manipulate that with the modular interface, the modular is still being clocked and controlled by the Tracker in conjunction with whatever it's doing, and a combination of both can also be used.
It's about as close as I've seen you get. I still think this is a work, but I'll play along:
I've made some quality of life changes while still trying to keep what you have here. Rather than explain all my changes, I'll just say that if there are any you don't understand or appreciate, I am happy to answer any questions and provide alternative solutions. I can give you a rough overview, though. I will say is that I think you will be much happier avoiding those 2hp drum modules, espcially if you don't give them enough space. They are very difficult to use in a big system with lots of cables and options. You should be able to run lots of layers this way, as well as be able to sample and combine elements using the Bitbox so you can use the results of those patches while running other patches. "Band in a box" will always be better with a DAW, a more streamlined hardware workstation like an MPC, or at the very least as a large system built gradually by figuring out what you want from each "bandmate" using experience and going piece by piece. But you can totally do multiple things with this - bass, lead, chords, drums, and other samples all simultaneously. You'll want to throw a MIDI keyboard in there for the Demon Core, and you'll be a lot happier with an external mixer if you want multiple things going on like a full band, but it should kinda work then. Kinda.
Was your plan to replace the AE Modular or to add the Eurorack to it? Honestly, I think your AE Modular setup will cover most of the ground your proposed Eurorack system will cover. I would say that unless you just really want to try specific Eurorack modules that are different from what's in your current case, you're probably fine for now. I would recomend a couple more LFOs or whatever other modulation Tangible Waves offers and just looking up patch ideas. The quantizer and Ornament and Crime (if it comes back in stock) are also available in AE, and would probably help as well.
edit: I do have a Polyend Tracker as well and it is a great controller/sequencer for modular. If you get a MIDI module for your AE Modular, you can work that in easily and absolutely use that setup to do melodic bass and leads using your current modular, with other samples/sequencing/synth stuff being done on the Tracker or a DAW.
I clicked the picture and saw you already started making it bigger, and that's good. 84hp at least will go a long way towards making this a very good system to start with. What you need mainly is modulation. A Pip Slope does some good stuff, but also having some LFOs (Batumi, Ochd+expander, etc) and maybe a sample and hold (Toppobrillo Sport Modulator, Divkid RND Step), small CV sequencer, and/or quantizer will give you a ton of variety even from just the Ensemble oscillator and a filter. Effects are probably better left outside the rack for now, but that's something you can figure out as you go.
