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Hey Garfield,

most of my timings in my tracks are more or less coincedence, but I really appreciate that you are keen enough to take a listen AND beeing positive about what you hear :) (thats not easy with umms, umms, umms, badabumms -> techno ;)).

Just to explain a littel further: I wiggle around a patch and just record to my ah qu-pac. I am absolutely dawless and will stay so. I stare at a screen the whole day because I am an it-guy and programmer.

And thats the reason why I did not touch the KeyStep Pro. It has a keyboard and I dont have a clue how to use one :). My "music" consists more of try and error whether something sounds good to me, so I program music like I do with my it-stuff.
So, here is a list of sequencers I can remember which I used:

• squarp pyramid as I was more into MIDI stuff
• the sequencers on elektron devices like analog rytm mk2, analog 4 mk2, digitakt, digitone (they are more or less equal, only thing they really shine is so called parameter locking on single steps and scenes, the rest cant compete with other sequencers (my 2 cents))
• kilpatrick carbon also for MIDI stuff
• dyi midibox 4plus - easily the best MIDI sequencer out there and also with cv expansion modules now, but I sold it before those even were on the horizon because I went modular already and sold all my MIDI stuff
• es drum sequencer which is easy to use and top notch for drum (gate) sequencing, it also has one cv/gate chan and an simple lfo
• intellijel scales which can also sequence but only 2 chans and not so easy to use since it is a quantizer
• wmd arpitecht which is nice but I got bored to fast with it (cant explain why exactly but I sold it after two weeks of use)
• nerdseq (i loved it since it was fasttracker for eurorack, but in the end it was just to "static")

finally the vector which I can not recommend enough, at least for me, because it fits my style, it plays nicely with the rest of my modular setup, especially with the sinfonion for cv

hmm, i browsed through the feature list of the KeyStep Pro and yes, for that price it really does a lot! 4 cv/gate chans arent bad, arp included, also MIDI if you need it. It reads good and could be a toy to use for the time waiting on the es black sequencer or endorphin.es ground control.

I find also interesting: the wmd metron with the voltera expansion(s), stillson hammer mk2 which is only 2nd hand these days.

I have to admit: it isnt an easy choice and it costs tons of money to test and test to eventually arrive at "your" perfect sequencer.

I hope you can find your choice without bleeding to death moneywise.
Best,
jingo

ps: I will try to surprise you with just another track, but atm my time slots for wiggling are somehow rare... :( will do my best!

EDITED Oct 8th 2020, 18:27

Welcome back Kel_!

Hey everyone,

I am finally back in a position to start taking orders for module or other synth builds - it's been a little while and I've been getting back into it in recent days, all is going well & I even have a few modules all ready to go.

Anyway, If you would like something built, message me with your dreams, wants and desires and we will see if we can work something out :)

Hope everyone is happy and keeping well!

I've just fill my case with 2 old veils... and today launch this new one. I fall in love with this. I think I'll upgrade my two veils because I find so handy the sliders in mix module. And it's not so much but I'll get 2hp from each one.

EDITED Oct 8th 2020, 15:25

Thanks to both of you !
Taking in consideration what you are saying and what I can do this is where I have reached as of now.

I get the feeling you could replace those two large filters with a Joranalogue Filter 8 and have a LOT of hp left to spare. Add a Kinks or DivKid's Rnd Step and Ochd. I would look at alternatives to the ADSR as well, something like Zadar would probably be a better choice.
I have read about a lot of frustration with Cold Mac though I've never used one. Might be something to research further.
Have fun and good luck.

yes you could replace the doepfer s&h

personally I would remove the cold mac and the precision adder - add panning mixer (for audio - panmixjr) and a matrix mixer (for modulation - input 4 modulation sources get 4 different mixes out)

But kinks has a sample and hold so i guess it could replace the doepfer one right ? Which leaves 6hp left again.

Oh I wrote the previous message while you were typing yours. I could add in that case kinks in the 6hp left.
Thanks !

the obvious candidates are the 2 filters - also the adsr - get a smaller one, if you need adsr!!
I'm not sure I would add links - kinks is probably a better use of 4hp
edit
I just saw you update with a cold mac and a precision adder - these just seem to be randomly added

cold mac looks great - but once you realise it will only do audio or cv at once it becomes less attractive, at least to me

EDITED Oct 8th 2020, 14:22

For what I have read and looked at here and there, there are two utilities that I have understood and which could fit in there in replacement of the dipole which are Cold mac and the Doepfer A-185-2. It leaves 6hp left for something else.

Thanks a lot for the reply ! Do you some examples in mind of feature modules that could be taken off and utilites that could be added ? My first intuition is that the stereo dipole could disapear so it would leave 20hp free for utilities but I have no idea which one.

less 'feature' modules - more utilities

re clouds - if you don't already have it - don't buy a clone just now - wait for the mutable replacement - it will be soon!!!

After recommendations I bought Ladik S-186 Dual trig/gate delay module for my generative patches.
I know how the module works but I can’t figure out how to use in an interesting way :-(
I would really appreciate some tips how to use it.

EDITED Oct 8th 2020, 13:58

good points on the workflow re arranging,thanks

Just a few things I was thinking about as I looked over your rack. You probably don't need either the buffered mult, the ADSR, the Viol Ruina, or the Intellijel Outs. Passive mults will work fine for most purposes, and in a rack this small I would recommend using a few of those star-shaped external signal splitter things. Buffered mults are mainly for splitting 1v/oct CV with no drop. ADSR envelopes would be useful if you are playing with a keyboard, but less useful with percussion. A Quadrax (4x AD envelopes/LFOs/etc.) or something similar might be more useful in place of the ADSR.
I haven't personally found a need for a line-level output module yet, though you might. Just keep an eye on your levels and you should be fine without. More than likely, you will need the opposite: a preamp module that boosts line level signals to modular level. The Viol Ruina is a low pass gate which is good for creating percussive sounds from oscillators and noise sources, but you don't have any of those here. I think you'll be disappointed with the usefulness of that module as an effect with your DrumBrute. Which leads me into this question: What can modular do for your DrumBrute that some effects pedals cannot? Why choose this format for an effects processor? Will you be branching out into synthesis later?
Most importantly, you probably want this to be fun so I would recommend looking into modules that have a lot of CV control. Your delay and ring mod have very little control. The Disting is mega-useful (so I would keep it), but not very fun to use. Maybe take a look at a Happy Nerding FX Aid XL. It's only 6hp, but has three CV controllable parameters and a bunch of effects.
In small racks like this, it's common to try to squeeze in a million tiny modules. Instead, get modules that are hands-on AND CV controllable, which usually means larger. You will almost certainly want a bigger rack in the long run to get the most out of modular. Whether it's the RackBrute 6U or a Mantis... Start planning for that now.
Have fun and good luck.

EDITED Oct 8th 2020, 10:11

Hi,

This is just to know if you think this rack is kind of well balanced and usable, what could be taken off and added.
I know the aurora is not out yet and I haven't heard proper examples of it but I have put it here anyway as it seems to have lots of cv modulation and I like the name and the design !

This is all for good fun and to try to understand better the eurorack world. I have some of those modules already but I am still far from that rack.

Thanks for your reply and have a good day !
Cheers,

I saw an Arturia 3U RackBrute on Reverb for a pretty decent price and got the idea to build an effects processor for my DrumBrute. The plan is to run the individual outs on the DrumBrute into filters and delays and get some out of this world drum sounds. This is a first draft and I would welcome and comments or suggestions. Thanks for looking.

@JimHowell1970,

Many thanks your advice is always solid and on point. No rush, I still am watching videos on Piston Honda MK3, Hertz Donut and have used the Plaits and other MI modules in VCVRack. These seem like fun great VCOs to get or perhaps another complex oscillator like the Verbos or Instruo for my setup. Another one that looks fun is the Rossum Trident Oscillator. Good to know about Rings vs Plaits. What exactly does Rings do? I love Plaits well at least the one in the VCVRack software that I messed around a bit as well as Marbles and Elements.

@the-erc,

I have multiple sequencers that I use externally:

Varigate 4+ in other rack
Make Noise 0-ctrl
Korg SQ-1
Elektron Analog 4 MK2 with CV control
Elektron Octatrack via MIDI to CV

I do have fun also using LFO and Quadrax to drive things which I've done a few times for fun experiments which has quite interesting effects. Of these sequencers, my least favorite is the Varigate 4+ man that thing sucks balls and is a royal PITA to get decent precise sequencing done. Strangely enough, the Korg SQ-1 has the best overall ease of use and gets the job done well as do the sequencers in the Elektron Analog 4. The 0-ctrl from Make Noise is very fun sort of a mini Rene meets Pressure Points without the cartesian features of the Rene. I like using that as a mini keyboard. Modules like the Doepfer A110-2 Basic VCO, Richter Anti-Oscillator and Noise Engineering Cursus Iteritas work well to create sequenced leads, pads or bass lines with it.

The Korg SQ-1 and Elektron Analog 4 do well sequence drum stuff like my Noise Engineering BIA.

No rush as I spent a huge amount already on two 6U racks and one is completely full that has Doepfer A100 Basic System modules and other ones I added and the second 6U is half full.

Hi Jingo,

Thanks a lot on the information on the sequencers and stuff. I need to reconsider my requirements and check a few of them again. With Endorphin.es - Ground Control and Erica Synths - Black Sequencer not becoming available (at least after almost 1.5 years waiting it looks like that) I have to reconsider what I want to go to use for my "main" sequencer...

What's your opinion on the Arturia - Keystep Pro? Have you tried/tested it? I might consider that one if I can't find anything else that might satisfy me... or while waiting for the "perfect sequencer".

He, he, the beginning of your track is very nice actually! While I start writing this section, and you might not believe that indeed, I start listening at your track for the third time! So is it good? Yes, definitely! I love the first 1+ minute, that's for me the best part of it and when the handclap starts to bang in, ha, ha, yeah, I love that moment (around 1:21), nice hard and present that handclap but fits well with your music.

Though I praise your music here, is this music I would buy on a CD or LP? Most likely not but that's just because indeed techno (I feel this track is pretty much techno, you feel it's not "techno enough"? :-) ) is not so much of my cup of tea but it doesn't mean that I don't appreciate your efforts that I clearly can hear out of the track and what you are able to manage to do here, it's amazing to be honest. I wouldn't be able to come up with a piece of quality music like this! How things fit together, how you time (at least that's how it seems to me) at the right time to come in with yet another perfect matching sound to get the flow going, give the necessary variation(s) and keep the listener sitting at the edge of the chair waiting for the next sonic surprise :-)

So well done and I hope you surprise us soon with yet another nice track! Thanks for all the advice and tracks and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Farkas,
I did think about the Voltage Block, but I thought -- perhaps wrongly -- that Tetrapad + Tete could cover most of what it can do, and leaves some space for other things (like a trigger sequencer.) But yeah, it's a good choice.

Yeah, I did that. That leaves me with 20 HP of 1U space and 6 HP of 3U space, in a case that should make a lot of fun to play with. I have ideas for future modules, but I think this should be a good start. And I can always move the Fusion System stuff back in its case and free up a whole row, if I want to expand.

Also thanks for pointing out the 1U sloth modules. Those look interesting!

This has been super helpful so far! Anymore suggestions anyone?

EDITED Oct 7th 2020, 21:44

Malekko Voltage Block and PNW would be my choice for this challenge.

A sequencer? How do you play this anyway? Drive everything from the LFO?

@the-erc thx :)!

The clap is made by the clap module which comes with erica synths techno system. This time I did no further processing on it.

Best,
jingo

Ps:
should be this one
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/erica-synths-clap

EDITED Oct 7th 2020, 20:51

Thanks Garfield! You know it's a small rack, so everything has to contribute*. That means a lot of cables.

*except for the LPG which is just sitting there chilling.

@jingo Nice :)

How did you make the clap?

Forgot to say : here is the rack this one will be controlling.

I'm interested in how you all would approach this "small rack challenge".

The Problem
The main voice in my small rack is the BIA which, as everyone knows, benefits from a lot of modulation. I also want to add an Entity Percussion Synth which, needs even more modulation than the BIA. So far I have been using Pamela's New Workout as my primary sequencer and modulation source, sometimes supplemented by a Moog DFAM. This works but it's not very playable -- it's quite fiddly and it takes long time to put together a decent bank of patterns to make a tune. Also, Pam won't have enough channels once the Entity shows up.

Solution?
Get one of those 64hp Pod cases (or alternatively an Intellijel palette (4u x 62hp)) and fill it it with control devices. Like so :

Constraints
I already have the Tetrapad (but not the Tete) so that has to go there. Pam and Pexp-1 don't have to be there, but getting them out the other rack seems more logical and makes more space for monsters like the Entity.

I cannot get a bigger rack until I get a bigger house; also that misses the point of the challenge!

I'm making techno, but feel free to approach from your own musical direction.

How would you do it?

Thanks and I may swap out the SBG and Zeroscope to free up more space as I don't really use those two modules as much as I thought that I would. Waiting for others like Jim and Lugia to chime in what would be great additions as well. Thinking Disting EX+ PNW + sequential switch + Matrix mixer and maybe 1-2 more oscillators as the BIA and Cursus are more all in one modules and having a solid analog VCO and FM module would be great fun. Perhaps Plaits and Rings? IME Hertz Donut Mk3 looks great as well but it is digital.
-- sacguy71
There's nothing wrong with digital - plaits and rings are digital too!!!
Personally I would go for the Disting EX, PNW, sequential switch and a matrix mixer - and then stop

spend a bit of time researching which vco (if you really want another vco) to get - take your time - watch videos - and only buy when you cannot not buy

or alternatively get one of the three oscillators you like at the moment and then stop (Rings - it's an effect as well as a voice)

on a side note I have both rings and plaits - if I could only keep one it would be rings

I think I would do that (tallin->1u vca) - not sure how much space will be left in the 1u but nonlinear circuits do a 1u sloth in both intellijel and pulp logic formats - nice for slow modulation!

It's always a good idea to leave some space though - so I would get a blind panel to cover up the 6hp hole that's left

...just bought a module from @AnonymousJosh...

...everything was fine - good price, excellent communication and top packaging and shipping, so i can only recommend!

Just received the module. Perfect and works great.
Shipment and support are fast. So thanks !

Thank you both so much for the advice. So I chose the Erbe-Verb because I thought it would be fun to be able to animate almost every aspect of it with CV, which doesn't make much sense, when I don't have enough space for modulation. So I revised the rack and got rid of the Erbe-Verb like you two suggested, and fittet more utilities.

If needed, I could free additional 6 HP by swapping the Tallin for the 1U VCA.

If you make the rack public then other users can viez it properly and get click through and infomatics - really useful when helping!!!

You need more vcas - get a quad cascading vca - mutable veils or intellijel for example - I'd also consider replacing the tallin with the intellijel 1u vca - all of these are dc coupled - as are most vcas

How are you mixing? if you do not already have an external mixer - you either need to buy one or put one in the rack - even if you do have an external mixer you will need sub-mixers, panning, modulation

Some utility modules will massively add to the variety of patches that you can create - mutable links, kinks and shades for example

you will need to free some space to accommodate these modules - the erbe-verb seems to be the obvious sacrifice - too big, not really a generic end of chain reverb (which is possibly what you are after) - replace this with an FX Aid XL and it will free 14hp more up - this may still not be enough!!! next to go would be the mimeophon (you seem married to the erica stuff) and again replace with an FX Aid XL

Hi Garfield,

as I am a big fan of erica synths I mailed them about the black sequencer. Raivo (Kodek) said that they had it on their agenda for a release end of june or so. The units are already manufactured, but as I understood they still polish the firmware. I waited long but in the end I gave up on waiting because I was in need of a more hands on sequencer than my nerdseq was. The only cv sequencer left on the market for more immediate hands on sequencing is the vector. And yes! It is the best sequencer I ever had and its developer Jim is very dedicated to fix and improve things. His support is one of the best I ever experienced. And also the support of erica synths is stellar but somehow they do not release their black sequencer...

The sinfonion is just another beast from acl (also own two of their vcos, the multifunction and the variable sync). Its superb to keep multiple voices in the same scale or process marbles output to your desired musical results. I also wanted to get a melodicer but it has just too much hp and my rack is already filled to the last hp, I cant ditch other modules for it to free some room, sadly...

btw: you can buy the vector from schneidersladen in Berlin (schneidersladen.de) as I did. They ship ww and are just beautiful and dedicated people there, I wish I knew them earlier so that I had bought more stuff from them.

If you got any questions about the vector or other modules I have (can send you a pic of my setup if you like, just pm me your mailadress) please feel free to ask. I will try to answer as good as I can :).

Best,
jingo

ps: here is a piece of music I am usually into... Since I am 13 I try to make techno-ish "music" and it always goes into stuff like this. Whatever I try it becomes like this. I always try to do some ambient but I also always fail hard. I am just not able to :/.
This piece is sequenced by vector into sinfonions song mode, acl vcos for bass and acid tones pushed through es polivoks and sara vcf, also starring modulation by kermit mk3 and there a lot of other modules involved :)...

try to listen, but its not easy if you are not into this "shit" ;)

EDITED Oct 8th 2020, 18:45

Good one @mowse, thanks for sharing.

Hi Mowse,

Woo-hooo-hooo, those Moog sounds give me the cold shivers (goose bumps), that's properly done! He, he, and then your kick hitting once and a while through it, gives it the necessary "beat". To use a phrase from the movies (and meant as a compliment): "This is some serious shit!" ;-)

Nicely done, this is just the beginning, that kind of music makes us addictive, we need more! Your music is like a hard drug, once taken, you keep needing it... Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, addictive Garfield.

Hi Jingo,

Oh no! Your patch is gone :-( and ;-)

The Sinfonion I have it already and indeed is a nice module. Nice for sequencing your chords but not for the voices. So I am looking for the ideal "partner" for the Sinfonion. You as well as Sacguy71 mentioned the Five12 - Vector sequencer, watching now a video of loopop, yeah it's not that bad indeed, perhaps I should give this sequencer a second chance. Only pity is that my local dealer doesn't carry this brand.

Instead of the Erica Synths - Drum Sequencer, I was thinking of the Black Sequencer, though it still hasn't been released yet :-(

Marbles is already on my wish list, good to hear from you about Marbles, I will put it a bit higher on my wish list :-) Or instead of Marbles, how about Vermona - Melodicer?

Thanks a lot and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi The-Erc,

Yeah, that's some nice noise coming from the DFAM indeed! Lovely and I like your "cable salad" picture too :-)

Nice stuff and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Not sure if you have perhaps these modules already, but perhaps two reasonable sized and nice oscillators to consider? Intellijel - Dixie 2+ and Make Noise - STO. STO I have it myself and for any large patch (multiple voices) I almost always include the STO. Dixie 2+ is high on my wish list and I have high expectations of that one too.

Have fun with the rack planning and kind regards, Garfield.

Selling remaining stock. Prices are good through October.

Just some food for thought... You have about 60hp dedicated solely to effects in a relatively small first rack. That's a lot of space and money for some reverb and delay. Is there a more cost/space conscious way you could get a similar result? Multi-FX module (Erica makes a few good ones)? Guitar pedals and FX send module?
All of the modules you have chosen are great, don't get me wrong. Again, just giving you some things to consider.
Have fun and good luck

Playability's a big deal, but I find that I like a good mix, half bigger modules and then squeeze a bunch of smaller support or focused modules in to support them. For example:

If that approach makes sense to you the question becomes: how important are envelopes in your overall rack?

EDITED Oct 6th 2020, 20:52

I have a love hate relationship with modules over 14hp. I love the fact that the controls aren't squeezed in and hate that I need more cases to use them. What have I got myself into.

Hey everyone!

I'm planing to build my very first Modular Synth and I would like to get some feedback from the more experienced users. I have some experience in making and recording music in general and making electronic music in particular. So far, I did almost everything "in the Box" with software synths. I also have some "virtual" modular experience with the Moog Model 15 app-version and of course, with VCV Rack.

I'm less interested in plain modules that serve one distinct purpose and more in playful ones, that can do a variety of things and keep some surprises along the way. I also don't mind a steep learning curve instead of buying more beginner friendly modules, just to replace them eventually.

What really got me started was the Fusion System 2 by Erica Synths, since I'm interested in dark and drony music. So from what I learned about modular synthesis, I thought that this system could do much more, if it's combined with the right modules. Also, I think 2 VCOs, a VCF and a modulation section are a great base, with other useful and interesting modules in there.

I plan on getting the Fusion System as a whole and putting it in a bigger Intellijel Case. I wanna go for that plan for two reasons. First of all, if I was to buy the modules separately, I would end up at the same cost as the whole system. So that way, I would get a bunch of patch cables and a case for free. Which brings me to the second point. I can easily put it back in it's original case, freeing up a whole 104 row, if I need much more space in the future.

I went with Pam's new workout because of its versatility and the combination of Steppy (because it fits in the 1U row) and Mimetic Digitalis, because they seem to go very well together and the Mimetic only takes up 10 HP (and I've seen Ricky Tinez doing some fun stuff with those both sequencers together). I also want to get the new Midi module from Intellijel as soon as it's available, to sequence it from my DAW or to play it with my Keyboard, while having the ability to play around with the two sequencers when I don't want to use my computer.

I want to get the Mimeophon because it sounds so nice as a delay and it can be used as voice, that has a nice gritty string-like quality to it, which I'd also like to explore (this is one of the modules that I'm looking forward to play with the most). The Erbe-Verb, well, as a reverb, mainly because it's highly controllable with CV.

A Tallin for VCA since it can also handle CV. And the TriTone from Happy Nerding as an EQ, because it can overdrive in a nice way.

And well, a Maths, because I think i would regret not getting one, after I looked through the inofficial Manual.

So, after months and months of researching, I came up with this first rack. If some of my thoughts are garbage, please tell me. I don't mind learning from my mistakes along the way, but if there's something that I should avoid from the start, I'd love to hear about it. Also, if I'm missing something important that would get me frustrated, only to order it afterwards. Oh, and if there are any good ideas, I'd like to hear that as well!

Thanks in advance!

EDITED Oct 6th 2020, 20:32

Love it! Well done.

Also, unless you have a Clouds already, don't put it in here. Instead, use a third-party build...either a smaller version of the Clouds, or a more complex version such as a "Monsoon". farkas is also spot-on about the signal flow in this build...you'll have an easier time of this if you try and localize your audio path to one row, modulation to another, etc and make everything flow in the same general direction. Instead of the Minimoog, though, have a look at an ARP 2600 instead. I've always found it to be a superior teaching synth as well as an excellent workflow model for modular builders.

Nice one @lugia.