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Brief response:
-- Links is a great idea, I will likely add that to the rack plan. Same for the Batumi expander.
-- Scales is presently included for two reasons. First, I'm intrigued by the concept of a quantizer in a modular rig and would like to get my hands on one to learn its various uses. Second, it may be weeks or months before my Metropolix gets delivered. IMO Scales (fed by LFO, EG etc) will get me by on pitch control while I'm waiting for Metropolix, and still have plenty of uses / interest after my sequencer arrives.
-- many interesting other ideas, I will continue to chew on those
I'm on a tablet now so will.keep the response short.
I'm new to modular, but a longtime musician, and experienced with VST-based synthesis. I've gotten into the modular scene for about a month now. I'm really enjoying it, lots of exploration and learning!
See below my current "mid-size / portable" rack design. I'm making a rack with the goals of i) it can make rich and evolving EDM style leads or basses ii) it has enough CV to be internally sequenced / controlled iii) it is a platform with real sonic / musical DEPTH that is a fun and exciting way for me to explore and learn sound design and modular techniques iv) it is a medium-sized format I can easily move. I'm not trying to make a "forever" rig, just one that will meet the above purposes for a while and really help me learn core modular techniques.
Thanks to JimH, Lugia, Farkas, Troux, Zuggamasta and others who've given interesting and helpful feedback on my prior posts. I DO basically understand and agree with Jim's guidance of having module #s in the following proportions: "sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities." I would say in the longer term, I will try to have my rigs generally reflect that proportion. In the shorter term, I still have a lot to learn about what utilities are useful for my aims, and the specific techniques for using them.
So, I will ask of any of you who care to contribute some rack feedback, what might YOU add to the rig below if you were using it for rich & evolving EDM leads / basses (basically as a powerful monosynth for a pitched voice)?
My comments on the rack design so far:
-- it will have 1-2 oscillators: FSS OSC2 and likely one other (presently Plaits)
-- it will have at least 2 filter options, plus waveshaping available via Kinks and Fold6
-- the FX I'm pretty set with Kamieniec and Black Hole DSP for now
-- I definitely want some submixing available (with Link2 mult, and A138n + A138s Doepfer mixers). The intention is to be able to i) get multiple timbres out of my OSCs ii) have some parallel routings to & from filters, waveshapers etc. iii) have stereo mix and panning at relevant places in the signal chain iv) have CV driving interesting sonic changes to all of the above v) all of that would likely be summed to stereo for "finishing FX" with the Black Hole DSP2. In other words, the ideas is to have multiple parallel routes to get a rich, evolving EDM lead or bass.
-- the CV section presently planned includes Metropolix, Stages, Envy, Batumi, plus Scales for quantizing. I do not yet have a great plan for mults / mix / logic etc. from the existing CV modules.
-- the utilities (sigh) section is fairly sparse, mainly because I don't yet have a firm understanding of these. Triplatt, Quad VCA, Kinks and Link2 give some basic utility function. I'm just unsure the # and variety of additional utility modules needed to really extend the sound design depth of this draft rig.
For your comments / suggestions, please assume 35-70 HP to work with for additional modules (anything over 35 HP, I would have to yank out some of the current draft rig, which would be okay). What would you add or change to "superpower" this rig as an EDM monosynth?
Some of you have already responded to my prior, more "open ended" posts. Thank you! I continue to revisit those and try to "digest" the info that is new to me. Moving towards a more specific vision, this post presents a concrete "draft rack" above, and I will welcome any suggestions / comments that could improve it. Layout can also likely be improved, though I would want to have a clearer idea of what the remaining modules would be before trying to improve positioning.
-- I got 2x tackle boxes to store / organize my cables in. In practice these are okay not great for modular cords, because the inner box divisions are somewhat small and can't be changed. I might try getting some bigger tackle boxes (or at least ones with bigger compartments) and repurpose the ones I have. The ones I have which work okay are: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R5SLQCW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
-- for cables, I like the Ad Infinitum cables, which you can get direct or via retailers (may as well go direct, IMO): http://adinfinitummusic.com/. I like those because i) they seem to have a good reputation for build quality and my experience is good with them on quality ii) they have enough colors and sizes for me (I want all black in a number of sizes). Regarding # of cables I would say i) consider the longest cable length you would need given your setup ii) get a few lengths from smallest usable to medium to longest usable iii) get at least 5x of each length. For me, I got 15x cables in 6,12,18,24 &36 and that's about all I need for now. IMO for $50-70 you should be able to get a good set of cables which will cover a wide range of your immediate patching needs.
question: you said "With Spotify and other data-collection companies actively stealing (or paying fractions of pennies for) the work and ideas of artists in order to create artificially intelligent generative music that sounds like those artists..." are there a couple key articles / videos you could point me to on this topic? The Mylarmelodies vid you mentioned is ~80 minutes long. Thought I'd just ask you where the good bits of info you've seen on this topic are
reactions to your rack:
-- looks awesome! It contains a lot of my "top pick" modules I consider most interesting. Having instruments that I find exciting, inspiring, that I want to come back to over and over -- that's a big deal. A mixture of sonic appeal and depth, physical beauty, kinesthetics, ease & fun of use but also challenge and depth, to me that makes a great instrument. Your rig has a lot of that vibe to me
-- I'm also new to modular but experienced in music and synthesis. I had asked some recent questions to the forum. JimH and Lugia got back to me with loads of useful recommendations. One Jim said that sticks out to me in this instance is basically "consider separating your drum modules from others." To me that seems helpful and I thought I'd pass it along. So maybe as you evolve your rack(s) you split rhythm from other?
-- what else might be useful in your evolving rack? I haven't scrubbed your rig design module by module, but at a glance, I might suggest:
** It's a big rack, so maybe sprinkling some more "utility / submix pods" in 2-3 spots around the rig could help. This could mean mults and low-HP mono and stereo mixers. While it doesn't sound sexy on the face of it, in effect it should allow for a huge range of parallel signal paths. I know you've already got some utilities sprinkled around; IMO a few additional submix pods could be interesting.
** More waveshapers!? To me those are a very exciting part of modular, esp when driven with deep modulation and/or audio rate. Also very neat is Instruo Tain, a switching utility that can be driven at audio rate. So like the OS2 scissor you have, but able to intake anything. My jaw dropped the first time I got that working. I'm not sure if Switchblade will work at audio rate, but I know Tain will. And today I spent some good time with Rossum Linneaus; it really changes my ideas of what a filter can be. Yes it can do the normal "removes spectral content" aspect of filtering, but it can also add a lot of content in interesting ways. To me Linneaus is a really interesting waveshaper. All these modules I'm mentioning essentially fit the category "what could come after an OSC but before final FX?" that would add interesting depth and flexibility to your already formidable rig.
** syncing audio rate modulators: I just learned about this recently, when reading the manual on Rossum Trident, and I'm SOO excited about the technique. Basically, if doing audio rate modulation, syncing the modulator to the carrier gives rock-solid pitch tracking (due to the sync) while you can get a huge range of timbral variety from the audio rate modulation, and even change the modulation depth without losing pitch tracking. If you haven't already spent time with this technique, I would recommend it, as it opens up a vast added dimension of timbral variety. It's the bees knees! The Trident literature explains this technique pretty fully, and I've verified the technique works in broader usage.
I hope at least some of these ideas above are interesting / helpful / fun.
Echoing what Lugia and others are saying, why use a Eurorack rig for live hiphop instead of one of the "grooveboxes" like Tempest, Elektron Rytm, Maschine, or one of the MPC line?
A few questions I'd recommend considering (if you haven't already):
-- what's your preferred workflow for playing / programming beats? (e.g. rack sequencer, outboard sequencer, finger-drumming, etc.)? There's really a huge difference in workflow for different setups; I find some of the sonically appealing rhythm rigs have a painful (to me) workflow.
-- what are the desired core sounds? What platforms help you get those efficiently?
-- what sound polishing / fx / mixing are needed to get the final audio? Things like MPCs and Maschine are built to get you performance-ready sounds, volume leveling, bus compression etc. Other rigs, it may take more thought / work / additional modules to get the same "performance ready" sound.
IMO, MPCs are great rigs for hiphop: they're proven over decades of use, and they've really refined the platform specifically for hiphop. Maschine is also strong for that genre.
IF you're really committed to doing hiphop with Eurorack THEN I suggest really zeroing in on a sequencer you're going to love to work with. If you'll be happy working with the combo of Hermod Sampler and OP-1 (which you mentioned above) then that's cool, I just want to emphasize that the sequencer / interface will be key to having fun and getting good results. If I was building a Eurorack rig for rhythm, I would use Erica Synths Drum Sequencer, which is the best small format sequencer I've ever spent time with, OR a stand-alone sequencers to send MIDI in such as Polyend Seq 8 or Linnstrument. The standalone sequencer would give more room to work on a sequence grid AND free up HP from your rig. As far as reference Eurorack rhythm systems go, IMO Erica Synths Techno system is a very good implementation of the "groovebox" concept, BUT it retails near $5k and it voiced more towards Techno vs hiphop.
All considered, I'd urge you to see if a MPC will work for you, and if you really want to do Eurorack, focus on making sure you have a sequencer setup you'll love to work with.
Hi, you may want to investigate adding a Phaser for great acid sounds. I saw a long time ago a great video by Aiyn Zahev (Sami Rabea) about getting acid sounds using a phaser. Check it out here at about 1min45sec
The core idea is having a phaser with rate=0 (no phasing sweep) and the resonant bump from the phaser gives a lot of the "juicy / rubbery" acid sound. I'm not expert on this SO you may want to investigate it more BUT I have gotten good results from this technique using vsts; I imagine it likely works in hardware too!
Other comments:
-- I agree with above posts that portmento (slew) and a style-fitting sequencer will help get an acid sound
-- there's a ton of software that can do acid well and videos online; if you haven't already, I would say view some more videos and use some software trials to see what software setups produce acid results you like. Those will give you some ideas and validation for what you might want to achieve with a hardware setup.
Thought I'd mention it though, as in the last 18 months or so I learned a good workflow for DAW mixing with a modest sized mixing controller. I have yet to see a project that I couldn't get to work well with 10 or less groups (stems) and 10 or less channels per group; that means a session with up to 100 tracks can be handled efficiently on small format mixer (in this case, with 10 channels). This has worked out well for me lately, and I thought was worth passing along! Hybrid / stem mixing is pretty slick!
But if I had space and $ and priority for a larger format mixing desk, would I want one? Yeah probably : )
Lugia, Sacguy71, how many channels are you needing to handle for recording / mixing?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm surprised to see a discussion of large-format desks. My understanding was these are really only called for in large / professional studios.
I took some good mix & mastering certificate training recently. Everybody involved (myself, the teacher-engineer, and the other students) were all basically using "hybrid" (digital + analogue) rigs consisting of: DAW of choice, interface of choice, select external hardware (incl. analog summing for me) and select control surfaces. RE control surfaces, for me a Softube Console1 and Faderport1 work great: good build quality and hands on control, great DAW integration, enough channels (especially by setting up with stem or group mixing).
So I'm surprised you would opt for a big console vs. a hybrid setup. Am I totally not understanding your intended use case(s)? Do you want / need a ton of analog mix channels?
That said, IF I saw a desk like Lugia found, with big functionality, pedigree and in great condition, and IF I had the space for it and wasn't concerned about the huge weight (which I am), then I would be tempted to get one!
Thought I'd ask about your mixing use cases and suggest a "hybrid" mix setup for those with smaller space / budget etc.
If you want to learn instead of hiring out, then...
I took mix & master classes from a strong engineer (Friedemann Tischmeyer) at https://www.mastering-academy.com/ I would HIGHLY recommend this training if it is of interest and in budget. It greatly advanced my mix & master abilities.
Alternatively (and cheaper) IMO the mix videos on SonicAcademy.com are quite useful for EDM style genres. PureMix.com has great stuff for rock, pop, etc. Steven Slate's training videos and sessions (with CLA, etc.) are also very strong. So there's good stuff now available in video format.
Hi, congrats on your new home and studio space. IMO a comfortable sized studio with room to change / grow / breath is great!
Responses to 2 of your questions:
MONITORS: I have Adam Audio SH3 monitors. It was a big investment for me BUT is a great step forward for my studio, mixing, mastering, etc. I had previously used very good "hi-fi" speakers for my studio. The Adam monitors make my prior ones sound like trash. The Adams are like "x-ray" hearing into a mix, it is CRAZY what I can hear in a mix with good monitors vs. with lesser monitors. So what should you get? I DO like the Adam Audio line a lot and would suggest you check out something in that line that fits your budget and space. If not the Adam Audio, then I recommend finding another solution that is well used and well loved among studio professionals (e.g. mixers, producers, etc.). A call to a good "sales engineer" at Sweetwater or Vintage Audio King can help you find a good candidate set of monitors--they know what monitors are well used and loved in studios of different sizes & budgets.
ROOM ACOUSTICS: Room acoustics are a real problem, not easily solved, and depends quite a lot on the specific room, monitors, and your objectives. There are some basic "no regrets" moves to do with setting up a room, like getting your monitors far enough from walls and other reflective surfaces. Also, bass is typically a big problem if not the worst problem in a studio; getting bass managed will help wrangle in the other issues. I have learned a lot from https://www.acousticfields.com/ and the text / videos they post. I HUGELY recommend the Reference 4 system (software plus calibrated mic); measuring your room with that AND physically measuring your room's dimensions will go a long way to identifying your problems and potential fixes. Once the Ref4 has identified some problems, IMO better to fix those with room treatments (instead of custom equalization) BUT the EQ curves actually sound pretty good these days. I would say don't expect to find a "set and forget" solution for the room, but rather some solutions and approaches which help you get better results with solutions you're willing to pay for. Example: my best guess is my current room needs $4-8k of bass treatment with units weighing over 200lbs each; I'm not willing to do that now, so I'll use Ref4 etc. to get the best out of my near-term setup.
I'm new to modular in 2021, but a longtime musician, and familiar with many soft synths.
I've been using Modular Grid and am really liking the rack / module info and the discussion!
In the interest of surfacing and gathering a lot of the best ideas & discussions here, I wanted to ask folks on the forum:
1) what are (up to 5) of your top discussion threads and/or posts on Modular Grid? (Feel free to note your own or other's posts)
2) what is the short description of why you think these threads are great (important, informative, interesting, etc.)?
I'm looking forward to reading some interesting responses. Thanks all!
Thanks Lugia, a very interesting and detailed reply!
Most of those modules are not familiar to me. But after 60+ minutes and 2+ beers during review time, I think I'm getting the general idea and module layout.
A lot to think about -- I appreciate your + Jim's responses! End of day here. I'll add to this thread or others if additional ideas / questions come up. Thanks!
Jim, thanks for your ideas above, those are super helpful and interesting! Good food for thought, I will mull this over some more.
I find particularly interesting and useful your comments i) "modulation and utility should take up about 50% of the rack" ii) "matrix mixers are a great way of expanding modulation sources" and iii) "I'm in the use fewer modulation sources and more utilities to get more, complex modulation camp" -- great advice for a newbie like me!
Any additional folks from the forum want to add to the thread? (Hope so!)
I'm new to modular and ModularGrid, but I'm a longtime musician, and familiar with VST-based synthesis.
I have a couple questions I would love to hear advice on from you experienced modular synthesists!
My near-term goal with modular is to have a system that will be deep and fun to use for making interesting EDM bass and lead sounds -- sounds with a lot of intrinsic appeal and interest AND subtle change to them over time that can keep interest or be used structurally in a song (as in the case of an evolving lead that reaches its "fullest" version at the "drop"). As a musical example, think of some of Deadmau5's feature sounds.
***Questions: what types of modules would you recommend for a system like this? What is a good ratio of modules (e.g. OSC vs. filters vs. control signals vs. VCAs, etc.) in this type of system? (And last, less importantly but I'm still curious about this) are there favorite modules that you might recommend for a system like this?
For reference, we can imagine a 9U 84HP rig (~252 total HP) as a likely case setup.
I'm asking these questions because as a modular newbie:
-- I'm concerned I may wayyyyyy over-index on certain module types, especially oscillators and filters
-- I'm concerned I may miss certain important module types (things important to modular but that I wouldn't immediately think of, having come from software synthesis)
-- more broadly, I don't want my approach and experience with modular to be dominated (and limited) by my prior experience with soft-synths; I want to get into what makes modular great
My base-case assumptions are I would need:
-- 1 or more interesting Oscillator module
-- 1 or more interesting filter
-- CV sources including envelope, LFO, and random
-- a reasonable # of VCAs, mixers, and mults
-- modules for MIDI in (or sequencer) and audio out
To me, this thread is an interesting question: what module types and #s to include to get the most sound-design depth and power out of a total ~252HP rig for EDM bass and leads? I hope you also find this interesting and look forward to reading your replies.
